We continue our series on the recent academic journal issue "Contemporary Worship Music and Intergenerational Formation" with authors Revs. Drs. Angela and Jeremy Perigo. In this episode, we explore what it might mean to take our Pneumatology more seriously when it comes to including children in the musical worship leadership of the congregation. O…

In this episode with Debbie Wong, we explore the theological question of babies praising God through the sounds they make -- the _jubilus_, as in the work of Augustine. This leads us to the practical question of how to understand the role the "woahs" and "ohs" in contemporary worship more broadly. Is it good and right to have these kinds of phrases…

In this episode with Dr. Nelson Cowan and Dr. Emily Andrews, we discuss their recently co-authored article "Liturgical Gift or Theological Burden? Teenagers and Ecumenical Liturgical Exchange Events" (Religions, 2024). We explore how the worship preferences of young people might surprise those who have long styled worship to "attract the youth" in …

Which color was your favorite?? In this episode, we take a walk down memory lane to discuss the WOW! Worship discs and their place in the growth of CWM in the late 1990s and 2000s. Dr. Joshua Busman and doctoral candidate Debbie Wong explore with me the marketing of the this series and the "portable affect" of CWM.…

In this episode with Dr. Sarah Kathleen Johnson, we discuss her recently co-authored article "Contemporary Worship Music as an Ecumenical Liturgical Movement" (Worship Journal, 2023). We explore how contemporary praise and worship music has found its way into the hearts and hymnals of a wide variety of Christian traditions as it connects Christians…

In this episode with Dr. Anna Nekola, we discuss her recent article "Congregational Music as 'Phatic Communication': Affect, Atmosphere, and Relational Ways ofListening" (Yale Journal of Music & Religion, 2022). We explore some of the social functions of music and how it does more than open of spiritual pathways between us and God but also social p…

For the past few years, Dr. Kelsey Kramer McGinnis has been covering worship music as a journalist for Christianity Today. Her articles have been stirring up really important conversations among worship leaders! She joins me on the podcast to talk about how the Worship Leader Research project fits into her broader view of whats going on in the wors…

In this episode with Dr. Nathan Myrick (Mercer University), we discuss his recent book _Music for Others: Care, Justice, and Relational Ethics in Christian Music (Oxford University Press, 2021). We explore what we are after in making music together -- and perhaps what we should be after in church music in particular. Namely, what kinds of relations…

I chat with my Worship Leader Research teammate Marc Jolicoeur about his role on the research team and how the project is impacting his work as a local church worship leader. He's an avid learner who brings his joy and hope to this important pastoral work.

I chat with my Worship Leader Research teammate Elias Dummer to talk about his contributions to the project, his hopes for the future of worship, and his experience in the worship music industry.

In this episode with Dr. Jonathan Welch (Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary), we discuss the legacy of the song story column in Worship Leader Magazine and what it can tell us about how worship songwriters imagine God's participation in the creative act. Welch encourages worship songwriters to know that God is present in the process, even if…

My fellow Worship Leader Research teammate Dr. Shannan Baker takes a minute to chat about the WLR project, her hopes as a researcher, and what animates her ongoing care for the contemporary worship phenomenon as a researcher.

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Noel Snyder, author of the book _Sermons that Sing: Music and the Practice of Preaching_ (IVP Academic, 2021). Dr. Snyder explores the musicality of the preaching moment as we discuss the preaching of Elevation Church Pastor and songwriter Steven Furtick.

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Marcell Silva Steuernagel (Dallas, TX), author of the book _Church Music Through the Lens of Performance_ (Routledge, 2021). Dr. Silva Steuernagel discusses the negative baggage of the language of "performance" in worship and helps us reimagine its usefulness. Instead of shying away, he encourages us to re-embrace …

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Maren Haynes Marchesini (Helena, MO). Dr. Haynes Marchesini talks with us about the music and worship culture at the infamous Mars Hill Church, Seattle WA. Our conversation explores the relationship between the subcultural musical styles and the Pastor Mark Driscoll's niche, aggressive approach to a patriarchal and…

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Zac Hicks (Birmingham, AL). Dr. Hicks discusses a general posture toward technology in worship and how to think about what Christian scripture and tradition might have to say about it. Our conversation explores the relationship between technology and culture, conflict over changes in technology, and why we worship …

In this episode, we talk with Anneli Loepp Thiessen (University of Ottawa). Thiessen discusses the role that gender plays in shaping the contemporary worship music industry, especially when it comes to songwriting. Our conversation explores the relationship between women and the top CCLI charts, language about human-divine encounter in contemporary…

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Gerardo MartÍ (Davidson College). Dr. MartÍ discusses with us the surprising role that race and ethnicity among worship leaders plays in shaping worshipping communities. Our conversation explores diverse hiring practices, the impact of church growth logic on contemporary worship, and way sociology can help us unmas…

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Lester Ruth (Duke University) and Dr. Lim Swee Hong (University of Toronto), co-authors of the recent book A History of Contemporary Praise & Worship: Understanding the Ideas that Reshaped the Protestant Church (Baker Academic, 2021). Drs. Ruth and Lim walk us through their new book and describe how two distinct th…

In this bonus episode, we talk with two researchers working on a new project related to the changes in the "life curves" of recent top songs: how fast they rise on the charts, stay there, and ultimately fade out of use. We discuss the data and what it might mean for worship leaders who steward the song repertoires -- and consequently the faith -- o…

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Melanie Ross, liturgical theologian and author of the recent book Evangelical Worship: An American Mosaic (Oxford University Press, 2021). Dr. Ross reflects on how a commitment to corporate worship sits at the heart of evangelical communities negotiating their multiple identities. Our conversation explores the dive…

In this episode, we enjoy a conversation with Dr. Emily Snider Andrews, professor of music and worship at Samford University. We discuss her work on sacramental theology and the worship of Bethel Church in Redding, CA. Our conversation addresses how sacramental theology can help us understand music as a means for encountering God and how the label …

We talk Hillsong history, theology, and music with insider and scholar Dr. Tanya Riches. Dr. Riches is a former songwriter and worship leader at Hillsong Church and now serves as senior lecturer and masters program director at Hillsong College in Sydney, Australia. The basis of our conversation is her recent co-edited volume (with Tom Wagner) The H…

In this episode, we enjoy a wide-ranging conversation with Dr. Joshua Busman. Dr. Busman is a musicologist and professor at the University of North Carolina - Pembroke. We discuss how worship leaders navigate the use of worship technologies (eg. 'band-in-a-box'), the role of authenticity, and how to manage congregational expectations. Our conversat…

In this conversation, we speak with Rev. Dr. Glenn Packiam, pastor of New Life Church Downtown in Colorado Springs, CO. He’s the author of Worship and the World to Come: Exploring Christian Hope in Contemporary Worship (IVP Academic, 2020). Dr. Packiam talks about how congregations experience Christian hope through singing in congregational worship…

In this episode, we talk with Dr. Monique Ingalls, church music scholar and author of the recent book Singing the Congregation: How Contemporary Worship Music forms Evangelical Community. Dr. Ingalls reflects on how five recent sites for contemporary worship music are shaping the church, its musical practices, and ultimately, its communal identity.…