Madlik – Disruptive Torah thoughts from a post-orthodox Jew with a life-long love and appreciation of Jewish texts and a fresh and sometimes heterodox perspective on their meaning, intent and practical (halachic) implications.
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Geoffrey Stern Podcasts
Listening to America aims to “light out for the territories,” traveling less visited byways and taking time to see this immense, extraordinary country with fresh eyes while listening to the many voices of America’s past, present, and future. Led by noted historian and humanities scholar Clay Jenkinson, Listening to America travels the country’s less visited byways, from national parks and forests to historic sites to countless under-recognized rural and urban places. Through this exploration ...
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Clay’s conversation with Dr. Cassandra Newby-Alexander, professor of history at Norfolk State University in Virginia, about the status of race relations in America as we approach our 250th birthday. How should we read Thomas Jefferson's great sentence, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal”? Did Jefferson mean wha…
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The Surprising Link Between Biblical Spies and Modern Warfare The Torah doesn't celebrate team players. It celebrates disruptors. This week on Madlik, we explore the story of Caleb, a biblical figure who defied groupthink with fierce truth. In our latest episode, we dive into the fascinating tale of the biblical scouts and focus on Caleb Ben Yefune…
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#1656 A Conversation with Novelist Anne Hillerman
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52:15Clay interviews the southwestern crime novelist Anne Hillerman, now publishing her 10th novel about crime-solving in the land of the Navajo in Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, and Colorado. Anne is the daughter of the acclaimed and bestselling Tony Hillerman, who wrote 19 novels before he died in 2008. Anne decided to carry on the tradition, and her succ…
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The magic of twilight isn't just for vampires—it's a cornerstone of Jewish ritual and philosophy. Twilight in Judaism is more than just a daily transition—it's a liminal space rich with spiritual significance and halachic implications. We explore the concept of "bein hashmashot" (between the suns) in Jewish law and philosophy, examining its role in…
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#1655 Clay and Lindsay Live: Religious Freedom
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51:37Clay’s live conversation with Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky on Religious Freedom. Clay and Lindsay met in person at The Historic Christ Church and Museum in Weems, Virginia to discuss the history of religous freedom in the United States. They talk about how many Presidents have shared the faith, why there was an effort to separate the church and state fro…
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#1654 Wandering In Canyon Country — A Conversation with Craig Childs
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56:58Clay’s conversation with writer Craig Childs of western Colorado. Childs is the author of more than a dozen books about America’s backcountry. He’s spent months, even years, exploring the Grand Canyon and a hundred lesser but magnificent canyons in desert country. Childs has been a river runner, a guide, and a consultant, but mostly, he is a writer…
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October 7th shattered more than Israel's security - it's challenging core Haredi beliefs. In the wake of October 7th, a seismic shift is occurring within Israel's ultra-Orthodox community. The long-standing exemption from military service for Haredi yeshiva students is facing unprecedented scrutiny – not just from secular Israelis, but from within …
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#1653 Clay and the new History Channel Series, Kevin Costner's The West
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55:48Guest host Russ Eagle interviews Clay Jenkinson about the forthcoming eight-part History Channel series, Kevin Costner's The West. Clay was interviewed as a historical expert twice for the series produced by Doris Kearns Goodwin and featuring Kevin Costner. Clay explains his intensive preparations to participate in a documentary by Ken Burns or Dor…
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What if everything you knew about Shavuot was rooted in exile, not the land? Join us as we explore how the early Zionist pioneers revolutionized Shavuot, transforming it from a purely spiritual celebration into a powerful expression of connection to the land of Israel. Key Takeaways Balancing tradition and innovation: The pioneers show us how to br…
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#1652 America's Public Lands: A Report Card
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52:56
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52:56Clay Jenkinson interviews Jonathan Thompson, the author of books about the American West, including Sagebrush Empire: How a Remote Utah County Became the Battlefront of American Public Lands. Thompson has written much about the pushback of western ranchers, irrigators, mining interests, and chambers of commerce against federal regulation (and even …
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Societal Stigma and Technological Advances in Disabilities Empowering the Blind and Deaf: Lessons from Israeli Innovators When was the last time you truly appreciated your ability to see and hear? For many of us, these senses are so fundamental that we rarely pause to consider their significance. But what if I told you that understanding disability…
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#1651 Ten Things About the American Revolution
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50:31Clay and frequent guest Lindsay Chervinsky discuss the American Revolution in a “live” podcast recording in Vail, Colorado. Was George Washington a great military strategist? How vital was Jefferson’s Declaration of Independence when it was written? Why weren’t women incorporated as full citizens — as Abigail Adams suggested — when America re-const…
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The biblical command to love others might be more about social contracts than warm fuzzy feelings. What if "love your neighbor" wasn't just a moral cliché, but a radical political theory? In this week's Madlik episode, we explore how the biblical concept of love in Judaism goes far beyond sentiment, representing a powerful social contract that shap…
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Clay's conversation with Amy Irvine, the author of the 2018 book Desert Cabal: A New Season in the Wilderness. Ms. Irvine published the book on the 50th anniversary of Edward Abbey's blockbuster Desert Solitaire: A Season in the Wilderness. Desert Cabal is a careful and nuanced conversation with the late Edward Abbey, who died in 1989. Wasn't his r…
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This episode explores the biblical and rabbinic perspectives on gender, sex, and reproduction through the lens of Leviticus 12. We examine how the Torah's language of "seed" and agricultural metaphors connect childbirth to creation and redemption. We explore the biblical imagination where women's reproductive power links her to primal creative forc…
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#1649 Sean Sherman and Native American Food
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57:07Clay talks with noted chef, author, activist, and visionary Sean Sherman, an Oglala Lakota man who is changing the world of indigenous food. Sean is the author of an award-winning book, The Sioux Chef's Indigenous Kitchen, and another book, Turtle Island, which is coming out in November. They discuss the white conquest of the North American contine…
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Passover, which we recently celebrated, bans bread. Leviticus bans pigs. Ashkenazim banned rice, but Mizrachim and the rabbis of the Talmud did not. What do these bans and dietary practices actually say about us? For 2,000 years the Jewish people have been doing something that nowadays is indispensable... reading food labels. It's required nowadays…
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#1648 Hitting the Road With Lewis and Clark
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52:43Occasional guest host and LTA videographer Nolan Johnson joins Clay to talk about the epic Lewis and Clark Airstream journey of 2025, wherein Clay will follow the Lewis and Clark Trail from Jefferson’s Monticello in Virginia to Astoria, Oregon, and back again. Historian James Ronda said the Lewis and Clark Expedition of 1804-06 was “America’s first…
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Clay's interview with Walt Dabney, who worked for over 30 years in the National Park System, including serving as America's Chief Ranger for five and a half years in Washington, D.C. Mr. Dabney is lecturing around the country about the threat to public lands from those who would return them to the states or privatize them altogether. Mr. Dabney ref…
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Freedom Haggadah: Tradition Meets Social Justice
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32:16Whether you’re a radical Progressive or Traditionalist, are you ready to be Free? Join Jews and Gentiles, blacks and whites, progressives and traditionalists and return to April 4th 1969 (MLK's first Yartzeit) at Arthur Waskow's radical and controversial Freedom Seder. I recently picked up a first edition of this Mao-sized red booklet, and it's far…
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#1646 The Legacy of Louis L'Amour and American Western Fiction
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57:01Clay interviews Beau L’Amour, the son of Louis L'Amour, the celebrated author of multi-million best-selling Westerns. Beau L’Amour is the manager of his father’s literary estate. By his passing at 80 in 1988, Louis L’Amour wrote just under 100 novels and more than 250 short stories. All of his books are still in print. Clay and Beau talked about ch…
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Forget Exodus - the key to understanding matzah lies in Leviticus. As we approach Passover, it's time to challenge our assumptions about one of the holiday's most iconic symbols: matzah. What if I told you that the true significance of this unleavened bread goes far beyond the rushed exodus from Egypt? In this episode of Madlik, we explore a revolu…
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#1645 The Resurrection of the Alien Enemies Act of 1798
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57:53
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57:53Clay is joined by one of his favorite guests and favorite people, historian Joe Ellis of Vermont. The discussion is about the Trump administration’s attempt to pull the Alien Enemies Act of 1798 out of the historical dust and apply it to what it regards as undesirable foreigners in the United States. Two Alien acts, the Sedition Act, and the Natura…
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How the Israelites Gave Us Self Care & Daily Rituals
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29:05Skincare isn’t just self-care—it’s a divine commandment. Join us as we uncover the surprising connections between everyday skincare routines and sacred rituals, and how this ancient practice can transform and inspire us. In this week's episode of Madlik, we explore a fascinating aspect of ancient Israelite culture that's often overlooked: the signi…
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#1644 Thomas Jefferson and American Diplomacy and Trade
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1:15:19Guest host David Horton interviews Thomas Jefferson, the third President of the United States, about his life as a diplomat. Jefferson served for five years as the American minister to the court of Louis XVI just before the French Revolution. Then, he served three years as America’s first Secretary of State — trying to keep the United States from b…
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Think Shabbat is all about turning things off? Think again. This week's Torah portion, Vayakhel, offers a unique perspective on Shabbat observance. While the prohibition of lighting fires is explicitly mentioned, it's just one piece of a much larger puzzle. Let's explore how Shabbat has evolved over time and continues to change in our modern world …
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Russ Eagle is the guest host for a discussion of Clay’s recent cultural tour of Cuba. Clay, Russ, and guests spent 10 days in Cuba, traveling in a small bus across the island. They began in Santiago, where the Cuban Revolution touched off on July 26, 1953, and ended in Havana, once one of the most vibrant cities in the Caribbean. It is still full o…
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Unveiling the Hidden Wisdom of Purim: A Feast of Fools for Modern Times
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31:34Dressing up as the opposite gender on Purim: a tradition or a taboo? As we approach the joyous holiday of Purim, it's time to look beyond the costumes and revelry to uncover the profound lessons this ancient celebration holds for our modern world. In this eye-opening episode of Madlik, we explore the surprising connections between Purim and other g…
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Clay is joined by Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky and Dr. Casey Burgat to discuss a new book, We Hold These “Truths”: How to Spot the Myths That are Holding America Back. The book aims to tackle 13 myths at the core of political dysfunction: lobbyists are evil, Congress doesn’t do anything, the Supreme Court has become too political, and there is a demand t…
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The High Priest's Breastplate: A Symbol of Unity and Representation
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32:12What if the biblical tribes of Israel were more radical than we ever imagined? At the heart of our discussion is the high priest's breastplate, described in Exodus 28. This ornate piece of priestly attire wasn't just a decorative element—it was a powerful symbol of the entire Israelite nation. The breastplate featured 12 precious stones, each engra…
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#1641 Author, Hampton Sides on Captain James Cook’s Amazing Third Voyage
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56:18Clay interviews Hampton Sides, the author of a dozen outstanding books, including studies of Kit Carson, Martin Luther King’s assassin James Earl Ray, the Battle of Chosin Reservoir in Korea, and most recently, The Wide, Wide Sea, Sides’ study of the third and fatal voyage of Captain James Cook. How does one write about a British explorer like Jame…
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Ever wondered why we stand when the Torah is taken out? Our latest Madlik episode uncovers the surprising history behind this universal Jewish tradition. Join Rabbi Adam Mintz and Geoffrey Stern as they explore the concept of "Torah on the Move" in this week's parsha, Terumah. We unpack the symbolism behind the Ark of the Covenant and its enduring …
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#1640 Traveling America in Search of Its History and Stories
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52:28Clay sits down with Nolan Johnson, fellow North Dakotan and Listening to America’s talented videographer and podcast editor. Nolan joined Clay with cameras and drone in hand at key points along Clay’s 21,000-mile Travels with Charley journey in 2024. The two discuss plans for this year’s Lewis and Clark trek from Monticello to Astoria, Oregon, and …
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In this week’s episode of Madlik Disruptive Torah, we explore how the Torah's legal sections, particularly in Parashat Mishpatim, interact with and transform the legal traditions of the ancient Near East rather than create an original Code of Law. We take this fascinating journey through the lens of Umberto Cassuto, a brilliant biblical scholar who…
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#1639 Jefferson and the Lewis and Clark Expedition
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56:57Guest host Russ Eagle interviews Thomas Jefferson about the American West. When he became the third president in the spring of 1801, Jefferson hired Meriwether Lewis to be his private correspondence secretary. Two years later, he selected Lewis to explore the American West by traveling up the Missouri River to its source, crossing the continental d…
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The Art of Stealing: Unraveling the Complexities of the Eighth Commandment "Thou shalt not steal" seems straightforward, but is it? This week's episode of Madlik delves into the intricate world of Jewish law and ethics surrounding theft, revealing surprising insights that challenge our assumptions about this fundamental commandment. Background and …
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#1638 Joe Ellis on the 2024 Presidential Election
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57:21Clay's discussion with Pulitzer Prize winning historian Joseph Ellis, author of over a dozen outstanding, award-winning books on the Founding Fathers and America's early national period. Joe shares his comments and insights on the 2024 election and the return of Donald Trump to the White House, only the second time this has occurred in American his…
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The Maidservant's Vision: Redefining Jewish Experience and Philosophy Our latest Madlik Disruptive Torah episode challenges conventional wisdom about Jewish history and philosophy. Exploring the concept of "root experiences," we delve into how a simple maidservant's vision at the Red Sea can reshape our understanding of Jewish thought and practice.…
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#1637 Historical Integrity in a Hyper-Partisan Time
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1:00:59Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky and Clay discuss the challenge of maintaining historical integrity during political turmoil and uncertainty. How does a professional historian differentiate between her personal politics, her status as an American citizen, and her responsibilities as a professional historian? In other words, how can the public trust a histori…
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This week on Madlik, we're diving into a fascinating exploration of the Jewish calendar - a topic that's not just about marking time, but about renewal, liberation, and the very essence of what it means to be Jewish. In our discussion of Parashat Bo, Rabbi Mintz and I unpack the significance of the first commandment given to the Israelites as a nat…
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#1636 Special Episode: Listener Mail On Clay's Great Steinbeck Adventure
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56:23Clay and special guest Russ Eagle take up listener mail about Clay's recently completed Travels with Charley tour of America. Thousands of people followed Clay's 210-day, 21,400-mile journey across America and sent along numerous suggestions and questions; these included recommended detours, great places to camp, restaurants to visit, and great spo…
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Have you ever wondered why we don't raise our hands during prayer in Judaism? It's a question that might seem trivial at first, but as we explored in our latest Madlik episode, it opens up a fascinating world of gesture, ritual, and cultural evolution. As I sat watching the presidential inauguration, I couldn't help but notice the raised hand durin…
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Clay is joined by David Marchick, the author of the acclaimed book, The Peaceful Transfer of Power: An Oral History of America’s Presidential Transitions. The transfer of power in 2021 was not peaceful and it was not efficient. The transfer of power in 2025 will certainly be peaceful, but President-elect Trump is deliberately violating norms that h…
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Join Geoffrey Stern and Rabbi Adam Mintz as we explore the nativity of Moses in Parashat Shemot. Delving into the dramatic birth story of the Jewish people’s greatest leader, we uncover parallels with other ancient “savior” narratives, includoing a home bathed in light, three wise men, astologers reading the stars, danger, murder, flight and return…
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#1634 AI and Quantum Computing, Ready or Not
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54:19Clay and frequent guest David Horton talk about the coming Artificial Intelligence revolution. Like it or not, we are already wading (if not rushing) into that brave new world, and we all better come to terms with what’s ahead of us. Horton’s portfolio at Radford University includes questions of technology, appropriate technology, and the laws of u…
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unto the third generation - grandparenting
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29:26This week on Madlik, we're diving into a fascinating topic that's close to my heart - grandparenting in Jewish tradition. Our discussion centers around the iconic blessing Jacob gives to his grandsons Ephraim and Manasseh in Parashat Vayechi. I'm excited to share some insights I've never noticed before about this pivotal moment. We'll explore how J…
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#1633 The History of Presidential Transitions
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56:30Clay and frequent guest Dr. Lindsay Chervinsky discuss how an incoming president prepares to govern the United States. In what ways does the outgoing administration advise and guide the one coming in, particularly when the new president wants to make a sharp break with his predecessor’s policies and style? We examine the first four presidencies: Wa…
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This week on Madlik, we’re exploring how Joseph’s reconciliation with his brothers offers profound insights for our own lives. At a time when many of us make resolutions and fresh starts, this episode couldn’t be more timely. We’ll examine how Joseph and his brothers navigate the complex dynamics of forgiveness, rehabilitation, and moving from a pa…
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#1632 A Survival Guide for the Next Four Years
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55:13Guest host David Horton and Clay discuss New Year’s resolutions. Never more important than at present. People across the political spectrum are nervous about the next years of American life. But what’s to be done? Clay offers several ways of coping—taking up a craft that involves one’s hands and not merely one’s brain, reading with discipline and p…
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This Shabbat Hanukah Madlik episode explores the intriguing parallels between John Lennon's iconic song "Imagine" and traditional Jewish concepts. Delving into the Shabbat zemirot "Ma Yedidut," Geoffrey Stern and Rabbi Adam Mintz uncover surprising connections between Lennon's utopian vision and Judaism's aspirational views of Shabbat and the World…
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