Dev Interrupted is the go-to podcast for software engineering leadership. Each week, hosts Andrew Zigler, Ben Lloyd Pearson, and Dan Lines sit down with industry experts to explore the strategies, struggles, and stories behind high-performing software teams. Paired with weekly industry news coverage, the conversations dive deep into the real challenges that define excellence in modern tech.
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AI is reshaping infrastructure, strategy, and entire industries. Host Conor Bronsdon talks to the engineers, founders, and researchers building breakthrough AI systems about what it actually takes to ship AI in production, where the real opportunities lie, and how leaders should think about the strategic bets ahead. Chain of Thought translates technical depth into actionable insights for builders and decision-makers. New episodes bi-weekly. Conor Bronsdon is an angel investor in AI & dev too ...
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Debunking AI's Environmental Panic | Andy Masley
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59:02AI is destroying the planet—or so we've been told. This week on Chain of Thought, we tackle one of the most persistent and misleading narratives in the AI conversation. Andy Masley, Director of Effective Altruism DC, joins host Conor Bronsdon to fact-check the absurd AI environmental claims you've heard at parties, in articles, and even in bestsell…
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From Kubernetes to AI maximalism | Stacklok's Craig McLuckie
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55:29When you co-create Kubernetes, you earn the right to have strong opinions on the next platform shift. This week, Ben sits down with Craig McLuckie, Co-founder & CEO of Stacklok, who is advocating for a shift in leadership mindset. He argues we need to move from asking if we can use AI to demanding to know why we can’t. Listen to hear why he believe…
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The Critical Infrastructure Behind the AI Boom | Cisco CPO Jeetu Patel
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1:18:10AI is accelerating at a breakneck pace, but model quality isn’t the only constraint we face.. There are major infrastructure requirements, energy needs, security, and data pipelines to run AI at scale. This week on Chain of Thought, Cisco’s President and Chief Product Officer Jeetu Patel joins host Conor Bronsdon to reveal what it actually takes to…
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Speed is the moat | AMD’s Anush Elangovan
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52:21In the race to define the future of AI, what's the one advantage that truly lasts? It's not proprietary tech, argues Anush Elangovan, VP of AI Software at AMD, but the sustainable speed of innovation. He explains why AMD is rejecting the "walled garden" model for its open source ROCm stack, betting that an open community flywheel is the key to vict…
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Beyond Transformers: Maxime Labonne on Post-Training, Edge AI, and the Liquid Foundation Model Breakthrough
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52:30The transformer architecture has dominated AI since 2017, but it’s not the only approach to building LLMs - and new architectures are bringing LLMs to edge devices Maxime Labonne, Head of Post-Training at Liquid AI and creator of the 67,000+ star LLM Course, joins Conor Bronsdon to challenge the AI architecture status quo. Liquid AI’s hybrid archit…
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How spec-driven development is changing the rules | AWS’ Amit Patel
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50:30What is "spec-driven development," and why is this structured approach the key to unlocking complex AI projects? We're joined by Amit Patel, Director of Software Development for Kiro at AWS, to explore this methodology. He explains why "vibe coding" in a chat window fails on multi-day initiatives: the AI (and the developer) loses context. Kiro solv…
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The CTO must now think like the CFO to survive | Sancus Ventures’ Lake Dai
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56:23AI is forcing engineering leaders to become part-CFO, part-governance expert, and part-business strategist. Are you ready for the shift? We're joined by Lake Dai, a globally recognized AI expert, professor at Carnegie Mellon, and founder of Sancus Ventures, to explore the new operating strategies required in an AI-first era. She explains why AI has…
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How leaders win over their team’s biggest AI skeptics | Superhuman’s Loic Houssier
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46:18Forget top-down mandates. How do you foster organic AI adoption on a skeptical, high-performing engineering team? Loic Houssier, Head of Engineering at Superhuman, joins us to share how he did just that. He explains his strategy for overcoming cynicism, which involved leveraging a highly respected internal champion, the Chief Architect, to re-evalu…
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AI isn't for cutting costs, it's for multiplying impact | Super.com's Matt Culver
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47:49Is your company using AI to trim your budget, or to multiply your team's impact? We're joined by Matt Culver, a senior engineering leader at Super.com, to discuss why the common view of AI as a tool for cost-cutting is a misguided "accounting mindset" that ultimately destroys trust. He argues that leaders should instead see efficiency gains from AI…
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The timelessness of vector databases | Pinecone’s Ram Sriharsha
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48:16With massive context windows and new agent frameworks, do vector databases still matter? Ram Sriharsha, CTO at Pinecone, joins the conversation to make the definitive case that they're more critical than ever. He explains that at the core of all AI is search, and externalizing this function is non-negotiable for security, auditability, and control.…
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Architecting AI Agents: The Shift from Models to Systems | Aishwarya Srinivasan, Fireworks AI Head of AI Developer Relations
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53:25Most AI agents are built backwards, starting with models instead of system architecture. Aishwarya Srinivasan, Head of AI Developer Relations at Fireworks AI, joins host Conor Bronsdon to explain the shift required to build reliable agents: stop treating them as model problems and start architecting them as complete software systems. Benchmarks alo…
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Is Agentforce the future of enterprise vibe coding? | Salesforce’s Dan Fernandez
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1:06:59Vibe coding is a developer's dream, but in the enterprise, it can be a nightmare of risk and shadow IT. So how do you saddle the 'wild horse' of modern AI development? Dan Fernandez, VP of Product Management, Developer Services at Salesforce, joins the conversation to share the answer: a new category his team is pioneering called Enterprise Vibe Co…
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The accidental algorithm: Melisa Russak, AI research scientist at WRITER
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21:09This week, we're doing something special and sharing an episode from another podcast we love: The Humans of AI by our friends at Writer. We're huge fans of their work, and you might remember Writer's CEO, May Habib, from the inaugural episode of our own show. From The Humans of AI: Learn how Melisa Russak, lead research scientist at WRITER, stumble…
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Building the internet’s next infrastructure layer | Cloudflare's Brendan Irvine-Broque
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53:34The Model Context Protocol (MCP) is evolving beyond local developer experiments and into the secure, remote infrastructure that will power the next generation of the internet. Brendan Irvine-Broque, Director of Product at Cloudflare, joins us to share a roadmap for this future. He explains how Cloudflare's "customer zero" philosophy of dogfooding t…
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If Code Generation is Solved What's Next? | Graphite’s Greg Foster
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54:39The incredible velocity of AI coding tools has shifted the critical bottleneck in software development from code generation to code reviews. Greg Foster, Co-Founder & CTO of Graphite, joins the conversation to explore this new reality, outlining the three waves of AI that are leading to autonomous agents spawning pull requests in the background. He…
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Making tech literacy irrelevant | Infactory’s Ken Kocienda
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54:21What do you learn after spending 15 years at Apple and demoing your work directly to Steve Jobs? Ken Kocienda, Co-founder of Infactory AI and author of Creative Selection, joins us to share the answer. As a former Principal Engineer at Apple who helped create the iPhone keyboard and autocorrect, Ken discusses his incredible journey from a history m…
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Why enterprise AI lives or dies on applied research | Contextual AI’s Elizabeth Lingg
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54:12What does it take to transform a brilliant AI model from a research paper into a product customers can rely on? We're joined by Elizabeth Lingg, Director of Applied Research at Contextual AI (the team behind RAG), to explore the immense challenge of bridging the gap between the lab and the real world. Drawing on her impressive career at Microsoft, …
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Vercel's Playbook for AI Agents: From Vibe Check to Production | Malte Ubl
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54:24What’s the first step to building an enterprise-grade AI tool? Malte Ubl, CTO of Vercel, joins us this week to share Vercel’s playbook for agents, explaining how agents are a new type of software for solving flexible tasks. He shares how Vercel's developer-first ecosystem, including tools like the AI SDK and AI Gateway, is designed to help teams mo…
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Your AI demo is a lie (and how to make it real) | Arcade’s Alex Salazar
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1:01:58AI that talks is easy, but AI that acts securely is where everything breaks down. We're joined by Alex Salazar, CEO of Arcade, to confront the massive and often underestimated gap between a flashy AI demo and a production-ready system. Drawing from his team's own pivot from building agents to building the tools that secure them, he explains why a w…
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The future of the terminal is not a terminal | Warp’s Zach Lloyd
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57:32For decades, the command line has been a developer's staple. But what if its future isn't to be a better terminal, but something else entirely? We're joined by Zach Lloyd, co-founder of Warp, to discuss this groundbreaking shift in developer tooling, sharing his bold vision that the future for developers is neither the IDE nor the terminal, but a n…
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From Demo to Defensibility: How to Build an AI Business that Lasts | Aurimas Griciūnas
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51:46The technological moat is eroding in the AI era, what new factors separate a successful startup from the rest? Aurimas Griciūnas, CEO of SwirlAI, joins the show to break down the realities of building in this new landscape. Startup success now hinges on speed, strong financial backing, or immediate distribution. Aurimas warns against the critical m…
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Forget vibe coding. Say hello to vibe entrepreneurship. | Shopify’s Andrew McNamara
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42:43First, there was vibe coding. Now, get ready for "vibe entrepreneurship." Andrew McNamara, Director of Applied Machine Learning at Shopify, joins us to explain how his team is making this new era of business a reality. He shares the vision behind Shopify Sidekick, an AI co-founder designed to empower merchants by acting as their on-demand e-commerc…
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Mindset Over Metrics: How to Approach AI Engineering | Hamel Husain
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42:09As we enter the era of the AI engineer, the biggest challenge isn't technical - it's a shift in mindset. Hamel Husain, a leading AI consultant and luminary in the eval space, joins the podcast to explore the skills and processes needed to build reliable AI. Hamel explains why many teams relying on vanity dashboards and a "buffet of metrics" experie…
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You can't have AI without DevOps | GitHub’s Martin Woodward
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57:36The single biggest predictor of success with AI isn't the model you choose, it's the DevOps culture you've already built. Martin Woodward, VP of Developer Relations at GitHub - and the sixth person to ever use Copilot - joins us to explain why this surprising insight is key to the new era of autonomous coding agents. He traces the evolution of GitH…
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How AI Velocity is Rewriting the Rules for Engineering Leaders | ChatPRD's Claire Vo
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42:55What if your next competitor is not a startup, but a solo builder on a side project shipping features faster than your entire team? For Claire Vo, that's not a hypothetical. As the founder of ChatPRD, formerly the Chief Product and Technology Officer at LaunchDarkly, and host of the How I AI podcast, she has a unique vantage point on the driving fo…
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The art of letting go as a manager | Transcend’s Minh Nguyen
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42:50What's the hardest habit for a top engineer to unlearn in a leadership role? For Minh Nguyen, VP of Engineering at Transcend, it was breaking the "I'll do it myself" mentality. In this episode, she shares her impressive journey from individual contributor to VP at the same high-growth startup, offering a rare and honest look at this challenging tra…
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Building an AI-Native Startup | GrowthX's Marcel Santilli
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23:53How do you build an AI-native company to a $7M run rate in just six months? According to Marcel Santilli, Founder and CEO of GrowthX, the secret isn't chasing the next frontier model, it's mastering the "messy middle." Drawing on his deep experience at Scale AI and Deepgram, Marcel joins host Conor Bronsdon to share his framework for building durab…
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AI agents are knocking. Is your API ready to answer? | GraphQL’s Matt DeBergalis
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59:13The rise of AI agents is more than a tooling upgrade - it's a fundamental rewiring of the entire developer experience, with your APIs at the very center. We're joined by Matt DeBergalis, co-founder and then-CTO-now-CEO (congrats Matt!) of Apollo GraphQL, to explore this massive transformation. He introduces the emerging concept of "agent experience…
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Can AI Fix Healthcare? | Corti's Andreas Cleve
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47:11AI isn't just changing healthcare; it's providing the essential help needed to unlock a trillion-dollar opportunity for better care. Andreas Cleve, CEO & Co-founder of Corti, steps in to shed light on AI's immense, yet often misunderstood, transformative potential in this high-stakes environment. Andreas refutes the narrative of healthcare being sl…
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The people-pleaser in the machine | Wayfound’s Dr. Tatyana Mamut
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1:00:41Your AI is learning to lie to you. It's not malicious—it's just trying to be a people-pleaser. This dangerous phenomenon, known as AI sycophancy, is what happens when we train models with outdated incentives. Dr. Tatyana Mamut, an anthropologist, economist, and the CEO of Wayfound, joins us to explain why treating AI like traditional software is a …
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Mastering Multi-Agent Systems | MongoDB’s Mikiko Chandrasekhar
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40:23AI agents offer unprecedented power, but mastering agent reliability is the ultimate challenge for agentic systems to actually work in production. Mikiko Chandrashekar, Staff Developer Advocate at MongoDB, whose background spans the entire data-to-AI pipeline, unveils MongoDB's vision as the memory store for agents, supporting complex multi-agent s…
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Is your AI strategy built for speed or stability? | Qodo’s Itamar Friedman
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41:35Is your team's AI strategy tailored for a fast-moving startup or a high-stakes enterprise? The answer could determine your success or failure. We're rejoined by Itamar Friedman, co-founder and CEO of Qodo, to break down what separates engineering teams that truly thrive with AI from those that are just experimenting, explaining why the path to succ…
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The AI Agent Trust Gap: Bridging Risk to Reliability | Elastic’s Philipp Krenn
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44:11The age of ubiquitous AI agents is here, bringing immense potential - and unprecedented risk. Hosts Conor Bronsdon and Vikram Chatterji open the episode by discussing the urgent need for building trust and reliability into next-generation AI agents. Vikram unveils Galileo's free AI reliability platform for agents, featuring Luna 2 SLMs for real-tim…
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You don't need more code. You need more business impact. | Thoughtworks' Chris Westerhold
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59:10Is your engineering team shipping more code but creating less business impact? We're joined by Chris Westerhold, Global Practice Director at ThoughtWorks, to confront why engineering waste is so difficult to define and eliminate. He explains that for many teams, the issue isn't a lack of tools but a lack of a clear 'North Star' to align their effor…
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Architecting Reliable Agentic AI | Cisco’s Giovanna Carofiglio on the AGNTCY Collective
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41:02The Internet of Agents is rapidly taking shape, necessitating innovative foundational standards, protocols, and evaluation methods for its success. Recorded at Cisco's office in San Jose, we welcome Giovanna Carofiglio, Distinguished Engineer and Senior Director at Outshift by Cisco. As a leader of the AGNTCY Collective (an open-source initiative b…
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The fundamentals of agent-driven software workflows
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59:08You've bought the AI tools, but are you seeing the promised productivity gains? Join Dev Interrupted hosts Dan Lines and Ben Lloyd Pearson, as they break down the fundamental shift from AI coding assistants to intelligent, agentic systems. They discuss the key findings from their new guide, "The Six Trends Shaping the Future of AI-Driven Developmen…
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Taste Is The New Moat | Intangible CEO on Brand, Distribution, and Winning in AI
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53:01When AI makes creating content and code nearly free, how do you stand out? Differentiation now hinges on two things: unique taste and effective distribution. This week, Bharat Vasan, founder & CEO at Intangible and a "recovering VC," explains why the AI landscape compelled him to return to founding. He sees AI sparking a new creative revolution, si…
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You’re not the user anymore | Layer’s Andrew Hamilton
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49:00If you're still building products only for humans, you're already missing out on a massive new customer base: AI agents. Joining Dev Interrupted is Andrew Hamilton, co-founder and CTO of Layer (a first-of-it’s kind MCP agency) to unravel this monumental shift in how products will be discovered and consumed. He dives into how AI agents are rapidly e…
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The Emerging AI Agent Stack | CrewAI’s João Moura
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49:53Unlocking AI agents for knowledge work automation and scaling intelligent, multi-agent systems within enterprises fundamentally requires measurability, reliability, and trust. João Moura, founder & CEO of CrewAI, joins Galileo’s Conor Bronsdon and Vikram Chatterji to unpack and define the emerging AI agent stack. They explore how enterprises are mo…
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Inside Amazon's AI video generator | Kabir Bedi
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48:45What if creating a professional video for your business was as simple as a single click? We're joined by Kabir Bedi, Head of Product for Image and Video Generation at Amazon Ads, to discuss how generative AI is making that a reality. He provides an inside look at Amazon's mission to democratize video advertising, empowering everyone from mom-and-po…
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AMD's Challenge to NVIDIA: The Open Ecosystem Bet | Anush Elangovan & Sharon Zhou
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49:16How is an open ecosystem powering the next generation of AI for developers and leaders? Broadcasting live from the heart of the action at AMD's Advancing AI 2025, Chain of Thought host Conor Bronsdon welcomes AMD’s Anush Elangovan, VP of AI Software, and Sharon Zhou, VP of AI. They unpack AMD's groundbreaking transformation from a hardware giant to…
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Google DeepMind's AI playbook for engineering at hyperspeed | Philipp Schmid
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50:27What if the traditional engineering career path is being fundamentally rewritten by AI? We're joined by Philipp Schmid, Senior AI Developer Relations Engineer at Google DeepMind, to explore how artificial intelligence is not just a tool, but a force reshaping engineering roles, team dynamics, and the foundational methods of skill development. Phili…
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Your Key to AI Success is Hiding in Plain Sight | Cohesity's Greg Statton
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45:48What if the most valuable data in your enterprise—the key to your AI future—is sitting dormant in your backups, treated like an insurance policy you hope to never use? Join Conor Bronsdon with Greg Statton, VP of AI Solutions at Cohesity, for an inside look at how they are turning this passive data into an active asset to power generative AI applic…
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Imagine saving as much as 75 days of work within a six-month period, all through intelligent automation. Building on last week’s discussion about the critical shift from passive metrics to active productivity, host Ben Lloyd Pearson and LinearB co-founder Dan Lines now look forward to realities like this: 19% cycle time reduction and reclaiming sig…
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Why Gamers Paved the Way for AI | Databricks' Carly Taylor
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49:10What if the pixels and polygons of your favorite video games were the secret architects of today's AI revolution? Carly Taylor, Field CTO for Gaming at Databricks and founder of ggAI, joins host Conor Bronsdon to illuminate the direct line from video game innovation to the current AI landscape. She explains how the gaming industry's relentless purs…
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Now is the time to rethink engineering productivity
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40:20Are your teams feeling the intense pressure to "produce more" in an era increasingly dominated by AI? Join hosts Ben Lloyd Pearson and Dan Lines as they unpack a major shift in how engineering organizations must now approach productivity. Dan reveals the urgent challenges he hears directly from CTOs and VPs, who are grappling with how to define the…
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The 2025 AI Shift: From Chat to Task Completion & Reliable Action | Galileo Founders
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44:41AI in 2025 promises intelligent action, not just smarter chat. But are enterprises prepared for the agentic shift and the complex reliability hurdles it brings? Join Conor Bronsdon on Chain of Thought with fellow co-hosts and Galileo co-founders, Vikram Chatterji (CEO) and Atindriyo Sanyal (CTO), as they explore this pivotal transformation. They di…
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The Odyssey of Innovation: Classics, Code, and Cognitive Load | Two Sigma's Matt Greenwood
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52:52What can ancient languages and epic poems teach us about building resilient tech and future-proof teams? Host Andrew Zigler welcomes Matt Greenwood, Chief Innovation Officer of Two Sigma, for a conversation that uniquely blends their shared background in classical languages with over two decades of Matt’s experience at the forefront of financial te…
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Amplitude's AI Playbook: Data, Talent Integration & Agentic Futures | Wade Chambers
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47:07As AI redefines how products are built and customers are understood, what are the core strategies engineering leaders use to drive innovation and create lasting value? Join Conor Bronsdon as he welcomes Wade Chambers, Chief Engineering Officer at Amplitude, to explore these critical questions. Wade shares how Amplitude is leveraging AI to deepen cu…
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Redefining Ambition After Burnout | Zapier’s Kelly Vaughn
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59:05What happens when the person trained to spot burnout becomes its next victim? Kelly Vaughn is a Senior Engineering Manager at Zapier, the author of the After Burnout Substack, and a trained therapist. She joins hosts Ben and Andrew to share her incredibly candid journey of discovering burnout in herself. Kelly reveals how she (despite her professio…
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