Do you hate working as a lawyer? Are you an unhappy lawyer who wants to leave the law, but isn't sure what to do next? Do your family and friends think you're crazy for wanting to leave the law, or are you too afraid to tell them you don't want to be a lawyer? The Former Lawyer Podcast is for you! Each week, host Sarah Cottrell interviews a different former lawyer who has left the law behind. Hear inspiring stories about how these former lawyers are thriving and found their way to careers an ...
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An inspiring, outspoken speaker, author, podcaster and regular media commentator, Dr June O'Sullivan OBE is Chief Executive of the London Early Years Foundation (LEYF), one of London’s largest and most successful charitable social enterprises, operating 40+ award-winning nurseries in some of London’s most disadvantaged areas. Her monthly ‘real talk’ and no-holds-barred podcasts dive into the questions, topics and debates on all things Early Years, Parenting and Social Business – plus much, m ...
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Going beyond the book with a wide range of authors to discover the story behind the books we love.
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Supporting The Legal Accountability Project Because Transparency Shouldn’t Be Controversial
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8:33Sarah shares why she donates to The Legal Accountability Project, a nonprofit working to bring transparency to the judicial clerkship system. She talks about the power judges hold, how law schools often ignore bad behavior, and why more information—not more prestige—is what law students really need. If you've ever wondered why the legal profession …
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Talking Early Years: June O'Sullivan and Greg Bottrill
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33:32Are children deprived of the opportunity to play?... ...is not a new question, but one that continues to be tackled on many levels. Greg Bottrill’s book 'Can I Go and Play Now?' remains a catalyst for the conversation and highlights the importance of adults as loving companions, advocating for children’s right to a childhood.…
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Reddit and Fishbowl Are Great—Except When They're Not
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12:56Reddit and Fishbowl can feel like the only places lawyers can be honest about how bad it really is. But even in these “safe” spaces, the lawyer bubble shows up. In this episode, Sarah shares what she sees in these anonymous forums, why the advice often misses the mark, and how to recognize when toxic thinking is disguised as tough love. See show no…
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Five Years of Helping Lawyers Leave the Law inside The Former Lawyer Collaborative
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9:06Sarah is celebrating five years of The Former Lawyer Collab—and reflecting on what it’s taught her about helping lawyers leave the law. In this episode, she shares the behind-the-scenes of building the program, the patterns she’s seen in the hundreds of lawyers she’s worked with, and why the first step is always about knowing yourself better—not ju…
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We sat down with our beloved Waterstones Children's Laureate, Frank Cottrell-Boyce to discuss the magic of movie sets, the power of Shakespeare, the importance of reading for children and much more as we celebrate his brand new middle grade adventure The Blockbusters! A hilarious, globetrotting adventure, in which a boy bearing a striking resemblan…
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Continuing a conversation begun with his first novel, On Earth We're Briefly Gorgeous, we sat down with Ocean Vuong to discuss his new book, The Emperor of Gladness, which sees a wayward young man unexpectedly caring for an elderly woman with dementia. In another fascinating conversation we see how unlikely friendship, memory and a unique look at A…
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Understanding Executive Functions in an ADHD Brain with Annie Little
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1:02:00Lawyer and certified ADHD coach Annie Little returns to talk with Sarah about executive function, ADHD in the legal profession, and why so many lawyers struggle with time, organization, and burnout. They break down how ADHD brains actually work, what interest-based motivation means, and how understanding your brain can help you build a career that …
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From dismissal of symptoms to one-size-fits-all surgical solutions, women's healthcare comes under the spotlight in Naga Munchetty's important new book, It's Probably Nothing. We spoke with her about her own personal journey and the stories shared through dozens of conversations with women and men in order to better understand why women's health ha…
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Diversity, Equity, and Inclusivity are not the Problem in Biglaw
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12:58Is DEI really the problem in Biglaw? Sarah doesn’t think so, and she’s not alone. In this episode, she breaks down why blaming diversity, equity, and inclusion for the profession’s longstanding issues is not only inaccurate, but dangerously out of touch. If you’re tired of the gaslighting and performative change in legal spaces, this conversation w…
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Robert Macfarlane's latest book is his most personal and political yet, asking a question which may sound simple, but which forces the reader to look at rivers in a profoundly different way to simply being matter for human use. In this conversation he takes us from the cloud forest of Ecuador, to the industrially clogged waterways of India before s…
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When Tragedy Leads to Career Changes and Better Balance with Laura Markham
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48:27When Laura Markham suddenly lost her husband, everything changed—including how she viewed her legal career. In this episode, Laura shares her path from real estate litigation to finding a more flexible, values-aligned role after loss. She talks about parenting through grief, rethinking the billable hour, and how the Collab helped her reconnect with…
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It’s Okay If You’re Just Surviving Right Now
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8:40Feeling overwhelmed, unmotivated, or like you're barely keeping up? You’re not alone. In this episode, Sarah shares a simple but powerful reframe for lawyers who are just trying to make it through right now. If you’ve caught yourself saying you’re doing “the bare minimum,” this conversation will help you shift that narrative and offer yourself more…
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What If You Don’t Want to Be a Lawyer Anymore?
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11:58Are you questioning whether practicing law is really the right path for you? You're not alone—and you're not wrong for feeling that way. In this episode, Sarah talks about why so many lawyers feel stuck in careers that no longer fit, and why changing your mind isn't a failure—it's a sign of growth. If you've ever felt guilty for wanting something d…
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Talking Early Years: June O'Sullivan and Frank Cottrell-Boyce
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39:40If you have been frog marched through books, why would you ever read for pleasure? asks Frank Cottrell-Boyce, the Children’s Book Laureate. The award-winning author and screenwriter Frank Cotterell Boyce is the 13th Children's Laureate of the United Kingdom, a role created by The BookTrust to champion every child’s right to a lifetime enriched with…
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Jack Fairweather brings the same rigour and narrative flair that won him the Costa Book of the Year award for The Volunteer, to his new book, The Prosecutor, which tells the story of Fritz Bauer, a gay German Jew, who retuned to West Germany on a mission to prosecute Nazi war criminals and found himself opposed on all sides in forcing the German pe…
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What to Do If You’re Sick of Complaining About Your Job
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9:32If you feel like all you do is complain about your job, you’re not alone. Many lawyers reach a point where they’re exhausted, not just by their work, but by how much they talk about how miserable it makes them. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell addresses what happens when you reach that breaking point. She explains why yo…
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Completing a trilogy of outstanding books that examine the efforts to bring Nazi war criminals to account, Philippe Sands blends memoir, travelogue, detective story, and courtroom drama to stunning effect again with 38 Londres Street. We’re delighted to share his conversation with author Nick Harkaway, from their recent event at Waterstones Piccadi…
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Advice to Get a Job in Tech after Law with Ed Cottrell
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42:08On today’s podcast, Sarah is chatting with a familiar guest who has been on the podcast several times. It’s her husband, Ed Cottrell. They met in law school and graduated at the same time. Ed’s path took a different route than Sarah’s, and he now works in the tech field after leaving law. Today's conversation explores the common interest of many la…
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Hallie Rubenhold helped readers to see the Ripper murders from an entirely new perspective with The Five, which assiduously assembled the lives of his victims. With The Story of a Murder, she does the same again with the case of Dr Crippen, shining new light on a case most know for a couple of lurid details. What happened to Crippen’s first wife, w…
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Many lawyers contemplating leaving the profession assume the process is complicated. The reality? It’s actually very simple. But that doesn’t mean it’s easy. In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell breaks down the difference between something being simple but difficult versus complicated but easy, and how this applies to leavin…
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Spring is Michael Morpurgo’s first non-fiction book for adults in almost 40 years and the book itself is a portrait of waiting for the seasons to change. In a fascinating conversation he expertly leads us through the landscape he has lived in for over four decades, to share his appreciation of those green shoots, migrating birds and flowing waters …
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You Don’t Need Permission to Leave the Law and Here’s Why
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9:03If you’re thinking about leaving the law but feel stuck, ask yourself this question. Who are you waiting for permission from? Many lawyers aren’t just worried about logistics. They feel like they need approval. They worry about how their family, friends, or partner will react. They feel the need to justify their decision and have others validate th…
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Jessie Burton uses her literary skills to enchant and entertain younger readers in her new novel, Hidden Treasure, which is a luminous tale of fortune and loss set on the banks of the River Thames. We sat down to speak with her about the magic of mudlarking, her family history and the power of friendship.…
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Natasha Brown’s Assembly was a debut that announced the arrival of a fresh new voice in fiction and her latest, Universality, shows her wielding words as weapons in a tale of power, privilege and taking control of the narrative. We sat down with her to discuss writing without constraints, perceptions of reality and what universality means.…
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Why Amisha DeYoung-Dominguez Left the Law for Public Service
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58:35Sarah Cottrell talks with Amisha DeYoung-Dominguez, a former lawyer who transitioned into public service, on this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast. Amisha, now a congressional staffer, shares her winding journey through law school, legal aid, and government work—ultimately realizing that practicing law wasn’t the right fit. Her story highlights…
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When you've waited ten years for a new novel from one of the world's literary luminaries, you want to know as much as you can from the author. We were delighted to sit down and speak with Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie about her new novel, Dream Count, to find out why it took a decade to finish, what binds its four female characters, and what in turn con…
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Why Stay-at-Home Parents Who Left Law Have More Career Options Than They Think
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10:25Many former lawyers who stepped away from their careers to be stay-at-home parents eventually find themselves wondering how to re-enter the workforce—without going back to practicing law. On this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, host Sarah Cottrell addresses this exact challenge, breaking down the key steps for making the transition while avoi…
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Mark Steel brings his trademark humour to his account of cancer diagnosis, treatment and recovery but is sure not to pull any punches whilst he’s at it. When confronted with your own mortality, what lessons are learned about life, love and the time we have to enjoy it? We sat down with the comedian and writer to learn more about the miracle of the …
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What Has Been the Biggest Surprise for Former Lawyers in the Collab?
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16:47In this re-released episode, Former Lawyer Collab members share the biggest surprises they’ve encountered while figuring out what’s next. From discovering unexpected support from other former lawyers to realizing just how much law school and legal practice shaped their identity, these insights reveal what happens when you step outside the legal bub…
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2025 is a big year for Kate Mosse. Celebrating the 20th anniversary of her bestselling novel, Labyrinth, and the 30th winner of the prize she helped found, The Women’s Prize, we had lots to talk about. Did Labyrinth feel any different to the books that preceded it at the time of writing, what were the sparks for setting up a literary prize that has…
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Myths Former Lawyers Believed Before Leaving the Law
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15:54In this re-released episode, Former Lawyer Collab members share the biggest myths they believed about leaving the law—myths that held them back from making a change. From the fear of being seen as a failure to the belief that legal work has to be miserable, these insights highlight how shifting your mindset can open up new possibilities. Sarah also…
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Talking Early Years: June O'Sullivan and Jools Page
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40:25Professional Love: The Beating Heart of Early Years Education and Care On Valentine’s Day, there is much talk about romantic love, but we are talking about a very different kind of love; professional love, a term coined by Dr Jools Page and familiar to many colleagues across the Early Years sector. Introducing the phrase professional love gave perm…
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Andrew O’Hagan’s Caledonian Road was one of 2024’s bestselling novels, with readers delighting in his searing portrayal of privilege punctured in a changing world. To celebrate its arrival in paperback we’re thrilled to share the conversation from his recent event with Natalie Jamieson at Waterstones Piccadilly, in which he shares the connections b…
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Bestselling authorJojo Moyes knows how to create characters and relationships which engage her readers and We All Live Here is no exception. A blended family is tested to its limits when estranged members suddenly appear to upset a fragile balance but might happiness appear on the other side of the drama? We spoke with her about characters who appe…
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Former Lawyers Share the Obvious Thing That Transformed Their Careers
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15:34This week, I'm re-releasing an episode featuring Former Lawyer Collab members sharing the simple yet transformative realizations that helped them move forward in their journey out of the law. From understanding their values to accepting that it’s okay to want something different, these stories highlight the small mindset shifts that can make a huge…
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When Han Kang accepted the Nobel Prize for Literature at the end of 2024, she spoke about the thread that connects her writing, from a poem she wrote at the age of 8, all the way through to her latest novel, We Do Not Part. We were delighted to be able to speak to her from South Korea about the questions that drive her writing, the themes of her la…
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In this episode of The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell gets real about why so many Millennials feel stuck in the pursuit of success. As an elder Millennial herself, she unpacks the pressures lawyers face to maintain a certain lifestyle or salary—pressures that often come from family expectations, societal norms, and internalized beliefs about…
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Can the Corporate World Solve My Work-Life Balance Problems?
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10:33Many lawyers worry that leaving the law for the corporate world won’t fix their work-life balance struggles. In this episode, Sarah explores why corporate jobs aren’t all the same, how to identify workplaces that align with your values, and why you’re not doomed to hate every job you take. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/255…
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Why You Don’t Need to IRAC Your Way Out of the Law
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11:36Lawyers often feel pressured to craft the perfect IRAC-style argument to justify leaving the law, but that’s not necessary. In this episode, Sarah explores why trusting your intuition is key, how to navigate conversations about your decision, and why you don’t need to convince anyone else to validate your choice. See show notes at formerlawyer.com/…
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Four university friends now in their thirties are all experiencing their own takes on motherhood in the new novel from Holly Bourne, and a baby shower for one of them becomes the scene of a unique whodunnit. We sat down to speak with her about her own experiences with a baby who just wouldn't sleep, her run-in with a Rotary Club Santa, and why she'…
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Why Your Values Are the First Step to Leaving the Law
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9:41Leaving the law starts with understanding your values. In this episode, Sarah explains why taking a deep dive into your values is the critical first step for any lawyer considering a career change. She shares how identifying what truly matters to you can uncover the root of your dissatisfaction and guide you toward a career that aligns with your pr…
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Talking Early Years: June O'Sullivan and Louise Hannan
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38:36Unpacking The Twoness of Twos The Government has agreed to continue the roll out of funded places for two-year-olds, with talk of putting them into schools. Many are concerned that this plan may ignore the uniqueness of the two-year-olds. To mitigate this, my colleague Louise Hannan, (currently researching the emotional environment for two-year-old…
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After the success of her first book, Why Has Nobody Told Me This Before? Dr Julie Smith wanted to create a new book, something to turn to when you find yourself in the eye of the storm. Whether it's lack of confidence, willpower or the feeling of overwhelm that are leaving you in stasis, this book offers support and real time tools to help get yo…
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In today’s episode, Sarah kicks off the new year with an update on how you can work with her in 2025. If you’re starting the year thinking, ‘I can’t keep doing this,’ and you know you don’t want to be in the same place next year, this episode is for you. Sarah breaks down the options available to help you leave the law behind and create the change …
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Lawyers Hoping To Be Hit By A Bus Isn’t Normal, but Not Uncommon Either with Kelcey Baker
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40:10This episode includes an important content warning for discussions of narcissism, narcissistic abuse, self-harm, and suicidality. This week on The Former Lawyer Podcast, Sarah Cottrell welcomes back her client Kelcey Baker for a powerful conversation about the distressingly common experience among lawyers of wishing for a minor injury—like being hi…
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Disclosing ADHD and Other Mental Health Issues to Your Firm
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10:31Previously, Lauren Ascher was on the podcast to discuss accommodations for lawyers with ADHD. It’s a good segue into an important conversation about disclosing ADHD and other mental health issues to your law firm. It’s no secret that there is a high incidence rate among lawyers for anxiety, depression, panic disorders, and other issues. In the Unit…
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Talking Early Years: June O'Sullivan and Jen Singer
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36:23A Right to be Children: The Importance of the Design Architecture The importance of architecture to Early Years is often misunderstood. The building is part of the enabling environment and needs to be designed to support learning by creating the right environment and resources both indoors and outside. They are also integral to meeting the sustaina…
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Shortly after her Booker Prize win, we were delighted to host Samantha Harvey in conversation with Chief Executive of the Booker Prize Foundation, Gaby Wood, at Waterstones Piccadilly. In a wide-ranging conversation we discovered so much about Harvey’s writing process, preoccupations and response to seeing her novel Orbital triumph, and it is our p…
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How to Take A Mental Health Leave of Absence From Your Law Firm with Megan Nogasky
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29:27For countless reasons, December can be a pretty rough month for lawyer's mental health. So for the next couple of weeks, we're going to have some re-releases of some episodes in the podcast dealing with mental health. So there will be three episodes. This first episode will be how to take a mental health leave of absence from your firm, and I'm joi…
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Talking Early Years: June O'Sullivan and Sarah Ronan
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26:16Sarah Ronan is the director of the Early Education and Childcare Coalition (EECC) – an organisation made up of 35 members which represent children, parents, providers, the Early Years workforce and the wider business community. Like many others in the Early Years sector, Sarah's journey is deeply personal. Her own experiences with inaccessible chil…
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