In this bonus episode of Ask Dr. Change, Dr. Linda Ackerman Anderson shares an episode from the Change Signal podcast, hosted by Michael Bungay Stanier. Linda found this particular conversation especially relevant for leaders and consultants engaged in transformational change and wanted to bring it directly to her audience.

The featured episode—“Is Your Organization Change Allergic?”—explores why many organizations don’t simply resist change but have a deeper, systemic “allergy” to it. In her conversation with host Michael Bungay Stanier, Anne Gotte, SVP of Global Talent & Organization Effectiveness at Mondelēz International, challenges the idea that traditional change management is sufficient in today’s environment. She argues that modern organizations require an ongoing capacity for change, not episodic interventions.

Together, Anne and Michael examine the limits of top-down “decree change,” the importance of building emotional tolerance for uncertainty, and why embracing messy, imperfect leadership is often the most effective path forward. The dialogue offers grounded insight and practical guidance for anyone leading or supporting complex transformation efforts.