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In this episode, Adam and Curtis discuss Hal Brands' article "The New Nuclear Age: It's Even More Chaotic." They review Dr. Brands' five key trends influencing the chaos, exploring the return of great power rivalry, the impact of new technologies on deterrence, the crumbling arms control architecture, and the challenges facing the non-proliferation regime. The conversation critiques his observations and challenges some of his assessments in kind.

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151 episodes