#687 – The RP2350 with the Raspberry Pi Team

The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast

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3M ago

MP3•Episode home

Welcome James Adams, Chris Boross, Liam Fraser, and Luke Wren!

The last time the RPi team was on the show was about the RP1 (#648)
The order of parts being released was RP2040->RP1->RP2350
Check out the datasheet for the RP2350
Learning from silicon
Security and power states
The part is a “Dual dual core”
The Arm side is a Dual M33
The RISC V side is a Hazard 3 processor, designed by Luke based on a previous processor called the Hazard 5
HB5
There is a mux on the core and you select which side you’re going to use at boot
There are 48 GPIO (but users always want more)
Chris Boross (first time on the show) is on the commercial team. He’s seing interesting applications for the RP2350 including devices that are using it for motor control.
They also have seen the part used in satellites because mRAM or masked ROM is less susceptible to radiation errors
The PIOs have changed, but are more evolutionary from the RP2040
The PIO allows you to create state machines that process inputs without processor interventions, basically like tiny cores
2 cores – 8 total
Interesting PIO applications
- Luke still likes that DVI on 2040 that was discussed on the first episode they were on (#529)
- CAN is possible
- USB host / device
- MII / RMII
- ULPI – USB 2.0 Phy
The core frequency only increased 133 MHz -> 150 MHz. There is tougher timing with the M33
LVT – lower voltage threshhold
30 -> 40 pins
There are now variants listed on the RP2350 product page (but not in mass production) that include flash in the SOM package
RP2040 was one power domain
“Powerman” (and of course AVR Man)
Switched core
AON – always on
32 kHz
There is a C/C++ SDK that is the basis for other ports
Security is a focus for the RP2350
Bootrom in every chip
Secure boot
M33 features – secure / non-secure
RISC V PMP
RCP – Redundancy Coprocessor
Raspberry Pi had a challenge / bounty for getting the secret out of the RP2350 OTP with secure boot
One of the few silicon companies doing this sort of thing in public
Past guest Aedan Cullen was one of the hacks called “Hazardous threes”. He gave a talk about it at 38C3
Past guest Colin O’Flynn was also mentioned because collaboration around side channel attacks with the Chip Whisperer
IOActive used a FIB – Fine Ion Beam – and passive voltage contrast to capture an impressive image of a decapped chip (see the RPi post)
“Never want to see ‘novel technique’ in an email”
Improving the RP2350 silicon
How do you decide what to fix/leave?
Can it be changed in metal/vias?
SIO spinlock not being fixed
Chicken Bit
Filler cells are reprogrammable and help with fixes
It costs approximately $50K per layer to change (ostensibly because of the high costs of masks)
ULA – uncommitted logic array
Die shrink doesn’t seem to make sense
Will keep making each chip as long as 40 nm fabs are around
Thinking about the RP2040
The easiest way to get started is to use a Pico (RP2040) or a Pico 2 (RP2350). Both have connectivity options as well.
Raspberry Pi is now a public company! Doesn’t change much other than the business scrutiny.

57 episodes

#Tech #The Amp Hour (Chris Gammell and David L Jones #The Amp Hour (Chris Gammell #Physics #Science #Natural Sciences #Podcasting Education #David Jones

#687 – The RP2350 with the Raspberry Pi Team

The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast

56 subscribers

published 3M ago

MP3•Episode home

Welcome James Adams, Chris Boross, Liam Fraser, and Luke Wren!

The last time the RPi team was on the show was about the RP1 (#648)
The order of parts being released was RP2040->RP1->RP2350
Check out the datasheet for the RP2350
Learning from silicon
Security and power states
The part is a “Dual dual core”
The Arm side is a Dual M33
The RISC V side is a Hazard 3 processor, designed by Luke based on a previous processor called the Hazard 5
HB5
There is a mux on the core and you select which side you’re going to use at boot
There are 48 GPIO (but users always want more)
Chris Boross (first time on the show) is on the commercial team. He’s seing interesting applications for the RP2350 including devices that are using it for motor control.
They also have seen the part used in satellites because mRAM or masked ROM is less susceptible to radiation errors
The PIOs have changed, but are more evolutionary from the RP2040
The PIO allows you to create state machines that process inputs without processor interventions, basically like tiny cores
2 cores – 8 total
Interesting PIO applications
- Luke still likes that DVI on 2040 that was discussed on the first episode they were on (#529)
- CAN is possible
- USB host / device
- MII / RMII
- ULPI – USB 2.0 Phy
The core frequency only increased 133 MHz -> 150 MHz. There is tougher timing with the M33
LVT – lower voltage threshhold
30 -> 40 pins
There are now variants listed on the RP2350 product page (but not in mass production) that include flash in the SOM package
RP2040 was one power domain
“Powerman” (and of course AVR Man)
Switched core
AON – always on
32 kHz
There is a C/C++ SDK that is the basis for other ports
Security is a focus for the RP2350
Bootrom in every chip
Secure boot
M33 features – secure / non-secure
RISC V PMP
RCP – Redundancy Coprocessor
Raspberry Pi had a challenge / bounty for getting the secret out of the RP2350 OTP with secure boot
One of the few silicon companies doing this sort of thing in public
Past guest Aedan Cullen was one of the hacks called “Hazardous threes”. He gave a talk about it at 38C3
Past guest Colin O’Flynn was also mentioned because collaboration around side channel attacks with the Chip Whisperer
IOActive used a FIB – Fine Ion Beam – and passive voltage contrast to capture an impressive image of a decapped chip (see the RPi post)
“Never want to see ‘novel technique’ in an email”
Improving the RP2350 silicon
How do you decide what to fix/leave?
Can it be changed in metal/vias?
SIO spinlock not being fixed
Chicken Bit
Filler cells are reprogrammable and help with fixes
It costs approximately $50K per layer to change (ostensibly because of the high costs of masks)
ULA – uncommitted logic array
Die shrink doesn’t seem to make sense
Will keep making each chip as long as 40 nm fabs are around
Thinking about the RP2040
The easiest way to get started is to use a Pico (RP2040) or a Pico 2 (RP2350). Both have connectivity options as well.
Raspberry Pi is now a public company! Doesn’t change much other than the business scrutiny.

57 episodes

#Tech #The Amp Hour (Chris Gammell and David L Jones #The Amp Hour (Chris Gammell #Physics #Science #Natural Sciences #Podcasting Education #David Jones

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