A new community where real stories matter. We are looking to encourage people to know, share, and live their best narrative. These stories shape our journey and inspire us to live out our best stories. Because real stories matter.
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How does the gospel influence the work of Mere Christians—those of us who aren’t pastors or religious professionals, but who work as entrepreneurs, baristas, and accountants? That’s the question this podcast explores every week as Jordan Raynor interviews guests across the widest variety of vocations.
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Encouraging, educating, and empowering mature Christian men with a roadmap to give younger generations hope and direction.
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Tim Croll (LEGO Masters contestant + Director of Serious Play at Narrative.live)
40:52
40:52
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40:52What we can learn from Scripture about a theology of play, how LEGO’s Serious Play can solve problems at work, and why the opposite of play is not work but depression. Links Mentioned: Tim Croll Tim Croll on LinkedIn Tim Croll on X Tim Croll on Instagram Tim Croll on YouTube Tim Croll on Facebook Tim Croll on IMDb LEGO® Masters LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® …
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Ep. 81 "I Don't Belong In Groups That Have A Collective Benefit For One Another" - Ryan Woodruff's False Narrative
38:16
38:16
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38:16Ryan Woodruff grew up a quiet and shy boy, shaped by constant moves and a fractured home. With no father figure and a mother working multiple jobs, Ryan built his identity on survival and self-isolation. A sense of direction came from the film Full Metal Jacket, which introduced him to the idea of brotherhood in the military. He joined the Marine C…
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Kaleigh Cox (Co-Author of Five Mere Christians)
56:16
56:16
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56:16What Jordan’s decision to work with a co-author can teach you about your own work, why he chose to make a collection of biographies his next book, and the stickiest stories from Five Mere Christians that have changed how he works. Links Mentioned: Five Mere Christians Order Five Mere Christians to Get Access to Jordan’s Free Co-Author Course Kaleig…
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S.D. Smith (Author of The Green Ember series)
49:28
49:28
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49:28How we can see all our vocations as participating in the “Mended Wood,” why The Lord of the Rings was more spiritually powerful for him than any Christian non-fiction, and the call to “modesty, fidelity, and audacity” in our work. Links Mentioned: S.D. Smith S.D. Smith on Facebook S.D. Smith on Instagram S.D. Smith on YouTube The Green Ember Series…
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Laura Wifler (Poet + Author of Your Worth Never Wavers)
32:29
32:29
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32:29How to find biblical freedom and courage to quit something professionally, how Laura and I have both cultivated a willingness to be misunderstood, and how the gospel should compel us to quit differently. Links Mentioned: Laura Wifler Laura Wifler on Instagram Laura Wifler on Facebook Your Worth Never Wavers Risen Motherhood Emily A. Jensen Hannah M…
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Audiobook excerpt of Five Mere Christians
1:25:04
1:25:04
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1:25:04Get the full audiobook here: https://amzn.to/3Yx57MbBy Jordan Raynor
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Skye Jethani (Author of What If Jesus Was Serious About Justice?)
36:26
36:26
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36:26The brain science showing that rest is a pre-requisite to doing justice, why it’s essential we remember that Christ both saved us AND killed us on the cross, and the best laugh Skye’s ever gotten from the improv stage. Links Mentioned: Skye Jethani Skye Jethani on LinkedIn Skye Jethani on X Skye Jethani on Instagram Skye Jethani on YouTube What If …
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Ep. 80 Epsilons in Narratives w/ Jonathan Heaslet
42:36
42:36
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42:36Jonathan Heaslet has been many things over the years. An economics & mathematics major, military, minister, healthcare executive, and more. Jonathan never planned on taking the long way around, but life has a funny way of handing you detours. He spent years chasing certainty, believing that success was a straight line—only to find that some of his …
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How Sarah’s 190th TikTok video went viral and launched her career, how to experience “God loving you while you work,” and why she views her silly songs for 9-year-olds as holy work. Links Mentioned: Sarah Maddack on Instagram Sarah Maddack on TikTok Sarah Maddack on X Sarah Maddack on YouTube Sarah Maddack on Apple Music Sarah Maddack on Spotify Si…
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What convicted Anna to see her job as a student as a vocation and not just preparation for a future vocation, how to view the hardest parts of your job as “cross-training,” and how to make time for relationships at work even when you’re swamped. Links Mentioned: Anna Kemp on LinkedIn University of Oklahoma David I Smith Doug McKelvey (Author of Eve…
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How self-care can lead to self-forgetfulness and ultimately self-sacrifice, how the speed of light can encourage you in your wordless evangelism, and the significance of Jesus spending years hammering the thing he’d be hammered to. Links Mentioned: BadLeader The BadLeader Podcast Devon Havenaar on LinkedIn Devon Havenaar on Instagram Devon Havenaar…
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Dave Guyor - Narrative Men's Leadership Summit 2024
1:07:52
1:07:52
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1:07:52"How 'abby' normal is your normal?" This powerful talk with Dave Guyor from our 2024 Narrative Summit dives deep into the loneliness epidemic, the impact of technology, and how we can reclaim the art of meaningful relationships.By Tim Croll and Steve Gohl
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Katelyn Miller (Early Intervention Teacher)
45:31
45:31
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45:31Why following Jesus is not just about avoiding sin but doing righteousness in your work, how to wrestle with the cosmic significance AND insignificance of your work, and how to make disciples of all nations in the job you have today. Links Mentioned: NC Education Corps Habakkuk 1:11 Working in the Presence of God Tales That Tell The Truth The Aweso…
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How to baptize your imagination regarding what God can do through your work, how Kurt’s enormous view of God has led him to give 25 million people clean water every year, and how to ensure you’re a marketer rather than a manipulator. Links Mentioned: Sawyer Think Sawyer Products Sawyer Products on LinkedIn Sawyer Products on Instagram Sawyer Produc…
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Tim Croll - Thoughts on Mentoring from a Lego Master, Ep #11
48:32
48:32
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48:32In this episode, we dive into the journey of Tim Croll, a husband, father of three, and proud grandfather. Tim shares his evolution from a faith rooted in fear to a deeper understanding of God’s unconditional love. He reflects on the personal development lessons he’s learned from both entrepreneurial successes and failures, and the pivotal role men…
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Hannah Brencher (Author of The Unplugged Hours)
49:30
49:30
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49:30How your phone blocks you from “wanting what you want,” how Hannah spent 1,000 hours away from her phone in 1 year, and how to exchange “why me?” with “who for? when experiencing trials. Links Mentioned: Hannah Brencher Hannah Brencher on Instagram Hannah Brencher on X The World Needs More Love Letters The Unplugged Hours: Cultivating a Life of Pre…
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Chris Hunt (National Account Manager at Clorox)
48:20
48:20
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48:20What Jesus might say to the conventional wisdom that "you’re the average of the five people you spend the most time with," the value of interfaith employee resource groups, and how Chris stopped chasing promotions and started chasing a quieter life. Links Mentioned: Chris Hunt on LinkedIn Clorox Clorox ERGs Tim Keller Will: The Sunday Times Bestsel…
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Holly Kim (Director of Marketing & Operations at Credibly)
31:33
31:33
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31:33How being faithful to God cost Holly in her career (and why that’s a good thing), how to isolate and attack the lies in your head, and how our peace at work can make space to bear others’ burdens at work. Links Mentioned: Holly Kim on LinkedIn Credibly Redeeming Your Time Called to Create The Cost of Discipleship Experiencing God Jordan Raynor Mere…
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Ep. 78 "I Must Constantly Prove My Worth To Earn Approval" - Kellan Fluckiger's False Narrative
42:41
42:41
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42:41In the glamorous world of high-powered executives, Kellan Fluckiger seemed to have it all – wealth, success, and influence. But beneath the Armani suits and corporate victories lay a man drowning in cocaine addiction, failed marriages, and a desperate need to prove his worth to a mother whose harsh discipline had left deep emotional scars. For deca…
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Mark Batterson (Author of A Million Little Miracles)
37:43
37:43
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37:43How our work can teach us more about God, why you should consider installing a “personal Mount Rushmore” behind your desk, and how to make work more playful and fun for your team. Links Mentioned: Mark Batterson Mark Batterson Books Mark Batterson on X Mark Batterson on Instagram Mark Batterson on Facebook National Community Church A Million Little…
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In this episode, we’re joined by Zach Garza, the Founder and Executive Director of You Can Mentor and the Co-Founder of Ten Thousand Fathers. Zach’s journey from being mentored to mentoring others is a powerful story of transformation, faith, and purpose. From his own life-changing experiences with mentors like Bob and Steve Allen, to founding orga…
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Dr. Denise Daniels (Author of Religion in a Changing Workplace)
38:14
38:14
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38:14The data shows that your non-Christian co-workers want to talk about faith, but don’t want to be treated like “salvation projects,” why Jordan is begging you to stop calling your business a “Christian business,” and why mere Christians disagree with their pastors’ assessment that they “talk about work” from the pulpit. Links Mentioned: Dr. Denise D…
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Ep. 77 "Achievements Matter More Than Relationships" - Chris Bolinger's False Narrative
41:49
41:49
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41:49Chris Bolinger grew up in a high-achieving family with three accomplished older sisters and parents who modeled excellence in everything they did. As the youngest and only boy, he was somewhat spoiled but also inherited the family's drive for achievement and discipline. While this upbringing instilled many positive traits, it also led to two signif…
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Peter Greer (Co-author of Lead With Prayer)
39:16
39:16
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39:16How to “leave the phone off the hook” to commune with God while you work, how to move from duty to delight in prayer, why I plan on showing up to meetings 5 minutes early from now on. Links Mentioned: Peter Greer Peter Greer on X Peter Greer on Instagram Peter Greer on LinkedIn Peter Greer on Facebook Hope International Lead with Prayer: The Spirit…
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Ep. 76 "Conflict is Dangerous and Will Make People Abandon Me" - Scott Mawdesley's False Narrative
33:17
33:17
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33:17Growing up in Michigan, Scott's early life was marked by dramatic changes. His family went from financial stability, with his father running a successful chiropractic practice, to severe hardship after a failed business relocation. Between ages 8 and 18, Scott lived in 13 different houses, including a period in a tent, and his family relied on thei…
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How to ensure you aren’t stealing from your employer when you work from home, how Shannon’s repentance led to spiritual conversations at work, and why you should consider “following your pain” rather than your passions as you make career decisions. Links Mentioned: Shannon Doss on LinkedIn Candice Levert (IT Operations Manager) Josephine Butler Uno…
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Dr. Mark Shrime (Chief Medical Officer for Mercy Ships)
40:03
40:03
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40:03How Mark’s 3 appearances on American Ninja Warrior sharpened his skills as a doctor, how the gospel compels him to think differently about “The Checklist Manifesto,” and why he felt he could die happy during a near-death experience. Links Mentioned: Dr. Mark Shrime Dr. Mark Shrime on X Dr. Mark Shrime on Instagram Dr. Mark Shrime TEDx Mercy Ships A…
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How Christian guilt about dreaming actually blocks intimacy with God, how Graham’s “50 Dreams” exercise can help you clarify which dreams are from God, and 3 practical things Graham does to work with the Holy Spirit. Links Mentioned: Graham Cochrane Rebel Graham Cochrane on LinkedIn Graham Cochrane on Instagram Graham Cochrane on Facebook Graham Co…
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Daniel Darling (Author of The Characters of Christmas)
39:08
39:08
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39:08How Jesus’s vocation assigns eternal meaning to your “non-spiritual” work, what the shepherds can teach us about how to lead well today, and the #1 book I recommend for overcoming insecurity at work. Links Mentioned: Daniel Darling Daniel Darling on LinkedIn Daniel Darling on Instagram Daniel Darling on X The Character of Christmas The Characters o…
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Dr. Kennon Vaughan (Lead Pastor at Harvest Church)
53:01
53:01
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53:01How Kennon’s near-death experience in a plane crash changed his work, how common misapplications of the Great Commission thwart your purpose at work, and why we need to “do less” and “abide more” to effectively make disciples. Links Mentioned: Kennon Vaughan on X Kennon Vaughan Downline Ministries Counterfeit Gods The Meaning of Marriage Thoughts f…
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Bob Goff (Author of Catching Whimsy and Love Does)
28:58
28:58
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28:58What it looks like to be “whimsically available” to others at work, how to make the shift from “will it work” to “will it last” in your work, and how God can use working in adventurous places like Disneyland and Kennedy Space Center. Links Mentioned: Bob Goff Bob Goff Books Catching Whimsy Dream Big Podcast with Bob Goff & Friends Bob Goff on X Bob…
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Robin John (CEO of Eventide Asset Management)
40:41
40:41
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40:41How to guarantee eternal success in any endeavor, the 6 criteria Eventide uses to evaluate investments that “make the world rejoice,” and how to stop thinking selfishly about your investments, votes, and time. Links Mentioned: Eventide Asset Management Robin John on LinkedIn The Creator in You Every Good Endeavour: Connecting Your Work to God's Pla…
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Dr. Francis Collins (Author of The Road to Wisdom)
27:14
27:14
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27:14What Francis learned from getting punked by Borat’s Sacha Baron Cohen, the 4 criteria he uses to discern who to trust at work and in life, and what Tim Keller’s Out of Office message said the day he died. Links Mentioned: Dr. Francis Collins Episode: Dr. Francis Collins (Fmr. Director of the National Institutes of Health) Braver Angels Who is Ameri…
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Kent Evans - 4 Dangers with Mentoring, Ep #9
44:49
44:49
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44:49In this episode of Spiritual Fathers, Kent shares the inspiring journey behind his ministry, Manhood Journey, which began as an effort to engage fathers in discipleship within his church community. Drawing from his personal story and advice he received as a teen navigating his parents’ divorce, Kent emphasizes the transformative power of surroundin…
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Ep. 75 "You Can Be So Good That You Don't Need God" Chris "Harp" Harper's False Narrative
33:03
33:03
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33:03Growing up poor in backwoods Kentucky, Chris "Harp" Harper lived between two destructive narratives: believing he could become entirely self-sufficient and feeling utterly worthless. After losing his brother to a drug overdose and his mother to cancer, with an alcoholic father in the background, he became determined to overcome his circumstances th…
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Kathy Keller (Co-author of The Meaning of Marriage)
31:17
31:17
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31:17The significant role Christian professionals played in making Christianity credible to her sons, why sometimes “the worst thing God can do for you is to let you be happy,” and how to die wishing you had spent more time at the office. Links Mentioned: Kathy Keller The Meaning of Marriage: Facing the Complexities of Commitment with the Wisdom of God …
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Ep. 74 "No Matter How Hard I Work, I Won't Get What I Want" - Shamara "Star" Cox's False Narrative
29:45
29:45
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29:45From a young age, Star was plagued by a deep-seated belief that no matter how hard she tried, she would never get what she wanted in life. This stemmed from heartbreaking experiences with her father, who would make promises to her but then fail to follow through. When Star was 10, she asked her father for a bike, but after months of waiting, the bi…
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Ep. 73 “I Am Unworthy Of Having My Needs Met” - Mike Hatch's False Narrative
37:01
37:01
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37:01From an early age, Mike Hatch learned to believe he was unworthy of having his needs met. Growing up in a tumultuous Christian household, he witnessed his parents' marriage fall apart, culminating in a pivotal moment when he and his brother had to call 911 during one of their fights. This experience led teenage Mike to conclude he was entirely on h…
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Ep. 72 "I Am Alone" Clint Hatton's False Narrative
38:13
38:13
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38:13When Clint Hatton was 12, his world crumbled as his father's affair tore apart their seemingly normal Southern California family. His mother's subsequent suicide attempts and a failed family relocation to Montana left young Clint with a deep-seated belief: he was completely alone in life. This false narrative drove him into drugs and alcohol by his…
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Ep. 71 - Tim Croll & Steve Gohl "Healthy Narratives Vs. False Narratives"
24:42
24:42
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24:42In this episode, Tim and Steve reflect on the past few months of Narrative and discuss the influences that weigh on us in a false narrative. We know instinctively that everyone wants to own and be the author of their own story, but not too many people feel like they have that control with the different factors that are going on in our world. Connec…
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Ep. 70 "Social Drinking Is Just Something You Do" - Garry VonMyhr's False Narrative
32:12
32:12
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32:12Garry VonMyhr, a Michigan-based serial entrepreneur and father of four, never saw himself as having an alcohol problem. Like many, he viewed drinking as a normal part of social life and business networking. But as the COVID-19 pandemic dragged on, Garry found himself questioning this ingrained habit. "I started feeling sluggish and less present wit…
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Ep. 69 "Christians Need to Build an Army to Dominate the World" - Greg Tull's False Narrative
32:37
32:37
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32:37Raised in a conservative Christian homeschool environment, Greg's journey led him from the cornfields of Missouri to the bustling streets of New York City and the rigorous world of the Coast Guard. Greg's foundation is built on his Christian faith, but his experiences taught him to question and refine his beliefs without abandoning his core values.…
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Ep. 68 "I Didn't Want People to See That I Was Different" - Jake Fedida's False Narrative
33:11
33:11
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33:11Born with nerve damage on the right side of his body, Jake Fedida faced a world that wasn't designed for him. As a child, he hid behind his mother's leg, ashamed of his differences. But a chance encounter with his hero, Derek Jeter, changed everything. On August 6, 2003, ten-year-old Jake met the Yankees legend. To his surprise, Jeter thought Jake'…
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The dangers of feeling entitled to a calling, how to think “Who Not How” in prayers for your work, and a simple way of thinking about “sowing eternity into the world.” Links Mentioned: Justin Matthews on LinkedIn PwC ‘Strategy in Life Principle #2: Purpose unlocks fulfillment’ Quarter-Life Calling Every Good Endeavor Who Not How Soul Care The Gotha…
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How Forte is providing “soul care as a service” for some of the world’s largest companies, how to practically stop working for love and start working from love, and why we should praise God for giving us more than we can handle. Links Mentioned: Vineet Rajan on LinkedIn Vineet Rajan on X The Marine Monk Newsletter Forte for Faith Forte The Intellec…
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Jeremy Swafford (CFO at Southeast Restoration)
47:35
47:35
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47:35How to cultivate humility and a Jesus-like others-obsession, why multiple pastors have quit ministry to work at Southeast, and the spiritual benefits of sticking with a job for many years. Links Mentioned: Jeremy Swafford on LinkedIn Southeast Restoration Lighthouse Ministries Episode: Audiobook excerpt of The Sacredness of Secular Work Episode: Ti…
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Roger Bodenstab - Becoming a Spiritual Father After 45, Ep #8
42:07
42:07
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42:07How can the church community create relationships between the older dads, and those still raising young children? What is it that men in the church are seeking within fellowship? Roger Bodenstab is the lead pastor at Crescent City Foursquare Church, the Church he grew up in, in North California. He is a men's advocate and nonprofit leader for the o…
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Dr. Gisela Kreglinger (Vintner + Theologian)
45:03
45:03
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45:03Why the wine industry is in trouble and why Christians should be the ones to help, how to show everyday hospitality to those you work with, and how the gospel can shape not just your work but also the work of others that you consume. Links Mentioned: Dr. Gisela Kreglinger Dr. Gisela Kreglinger on Facebook Dr. Gisela Kreglinger on Instagram Dr. Gise…
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Ricky Dickson (Fmr. CEO of Blue Bell Creameries)
39:27
39:27
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39:27Ricky’s spiritual disciplines during the listeria crisis at Blue Bell, how to accept critical feedback humbly and winsomely, and how a college paper on Blue Bell landed him his career. Links Mentioned: Ricky Dickson Ricky Dickson on LinkedIn One Scoop at a Time Blue Bell Creameries International Dairy Foods Association (IDFA) Chase the Lion If ‘Lea…
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How Shane discerned whether to pivot or persevere after 4 rejections from NASA, how “asking the right questions in the right way” led to NASA approving him reading Scripture from the ISS, and why he counts “consistency” during his time on earth as “worship." Links Mentioned: Shane Kimbrough Shane Kimbrough on LinkedIn Shane Kimbrough on X Shane Kim…
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