37signals makes tens of millions in profit every year but Jason Fried isn’t all that interested in running a business.

Instead, he cares most about making great products—like Basecamp, HEY, and Ruby on Rails—products that are centered around a single, coherent idea. These products are complete wholes, where each piece matters—like a Frank Lloyd Wright house or a vintage car.

But how do you create products like that?

In this conversation, we talk to Jason about what two decades of building 37signals has been like—and how to build products that have soul.

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Timestamps:

00:00:00 - Start

00:00:32 - Introduction

00:02:06 - What architecture, watches, and cars teach us about software

00:10:54 - How Jason thinks AI plays into product-building

00:20:58 - How developers at 37signals use AI

00:25:47 - Jason’s biggest realization after 26 years of running 37signals

00:29:58 - Where Jason thinks luck shaped his career

00:32:41 - What Jason would do if he were graduated into the AI boom

00:37:22 - Dan asks for advice on running a non-traditional company like Every

00:46:39 - Why staying true to yourself is the only way to build something lasting

00:49:38 - Wholeness as the north star for building products—and companies

Links to resources mentioned in the episode:

• Jason Fried: Jason Fried (@jasonfried), Jason Fried
• More about 37Signals: 37signals
• The book about architecture by Christopher Alexander: The Timeless Way of Building