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TRANSCRIPT:

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Sounds of children playing.

Joëlle: Girls…

Dave: Hi this is Ranger Dave. I'm sitting here talking to Joëlle Baird. And Joëlle can you tell us about what you do in the park?

Joëlle: Yeah. So I am the public affairs officer for Grand Canyon National Park.

Dave: Okay. And how long have you been doing that role?

Joëlle: Yeah. So I have been in the role I'm in of in public affairs for the last four years, pretty much since the very beginning of the pandemic. But I've been at Grand Canyon for now, 13 years.

Dave: How did you get to this point in your career? One doesn't just become a PIO overnight.

Joëlle: Yeah. So another way to think about it, public affairs officer or public information officer sometimes those terms are used interchangeably, but it has been a not a linear path I'll say. Like so many people in the Park Service who get into this, it sometimes takes a little while to kind of find your niche. And really, there's so many jobs in the Park Service that I have had and experiences. So I actually started out in high school with the Student Conservation Association doing trail work. That's that was my entry into the Park Service back in 2005. And since then, I've had a variety of jobs working in vegetation, and EMS and search and rescue, law enforcement, and eventually find myself in public affairs. So it has been a winding path, to say the least.

Dave: Yeah. Do you feel like all the different jobs kind of culminated to this one? Or do you pull from all those different experiences.

Joëlle: I definitely pull from all the experiences and I think that has really lended itself well to being a public information officer, especially at a park like this, where there's so many different jobs and divisions. And so I really rely on those experiences and lean into those quite often when I'm talking and providing information to the general public. Since I have had those variety of experiences, I think it's really led me to be a good PIO and understand the park in a more holistic way.

Dave: Okay do you feel like there are any special skills that you need to be a PIO?

Joëlle: Yeah, I think one of the big ones that I, is probably the most cornerstone is just strong writing skills. You know, it is something that I fortunately had a lot of experience early on with being a strong writer, and I would say just being comfortable talking to the public also. So a lot of times, PIOs, you know, they might come in the Park Service from the interpretation background that really lends itself to talking with the public, but really just a general comfort with talking to the public and also being really aware and well-versed on the different types of issues that you're communicating. So in Grand Canyon National Park, we have a number of issues that have high media interest and a lot of public interest as well. So you do need to be briefed on those issues and fully understand the complexity of them when talking to the public or with media outlets, that kind of thing.

Dave: How did you get the skills that you need to get to this role?

Joëlle: A lot of it is just been on the job training and it definitely helps being in a place for a while. So being here in Grand Canyon for 13 years, you start to learn more about the place and its complexities and the issues around it. So I'd say a lot of the skills I've learned have just been being here in the park for as long as I have and being willing and open to learn, also, from the experts here in the park. I heavily rely on subject matter experts to help me understand issues that, and try to communicate in a clear way to the public on some of the issues.

Dave: Okay so I heard recently that you went to grad school. I'm curious about what led you to the to make that choice. At that time, I know you're working full time at the same time, so that's got to be complicated.

Joëlle: Yeah, yeah, I knew I wanted to go back to school. My undergrad and a lot of my background is in science. I graduated in forestry and really I felt like I kind of needed more in terms of my education background. So I just graduated this last spring with a master's in communications from Arizona State University, and that's been a great experience. And the cool thing about that is I was able to take a lot of my work and apply it to my grad school studies. So it was very integrative of what I'm already doing here on the job, but also learning through practical experience as I went through the program.

Dave: So in the park you work in a very high profile job. I would say this is one of the most public facing parks in our country. Are there many PIO jobs in the NPS that are like this?

Joëlle: Not really. They're pretty few and far between For folks who are interested in going into this career field, It is the, what's called the 1035 series, which is public affairs. So many federal agencies have jobs like this. The Park Service, though, doesn't have a lot There's only probably about 50 in the entire agency. And a lot of that is because public affairs and public information is often a collateral duty for in the interpretation division. It's only those bigger parks that might be more high profile or have more visitation that have a dedicated public information officer or public affairs officer. So the big parks like we think of, you know, the Y parks, Grand Canyon, the big parks, I would say.

Dave: So with like only 50 people doing this. How many women are in these roles?

Joëlle: Yeah, it's actually predominantly women in in public information and public affairs, not entirely sure why that is. But yeah, there is also a regional and kind of a national office too, in terms of public affairs with the National Park Service, so there are you dedicated park PIOs, but there's also a support system, if you will, of regional public affairs specialist as well as at the national the Washington office level for the National Park Service.

Dave: So if you do need help, you have someone else to talk to. I hope, so yeah.

Joëlle: Exactly. Yeah. That's been a huge reliance that is great to have and just people, when things happen that go sideways in the park that we weren't expecting, we can rely and call on the regional or the Washington office for that kind of support.

Dave: Okay. Do you find that you're collaborating with other PIOs in other parks at times too?

Joëlle: Absolutely. The issues that we have here in Grand Canyon, a lot of them aren't unique to Grand Canyon. So, for example, Colorado River issues. The Colorado River spans across multiple parks. So having good working relationships with Glen Canyon, Lake Mead, that's hugely important. Zion National Park actually has around the same visitation levels that we do, and a lot of the same challenges with managing visitors in high volume and popular park here in the Southwest. So I really like working with Zion. I think that park is very closely related to some of the issues that we have here.

Dave: Okay. If folks wanted to someday become a public information officer, you know, what do you think the easiest route is to maybe get a job like yours?

Joëlle: Mhm. So with public information, a lot of people get into it from the fire ranks. So the U.S. Forest Service, as well as the Park Service, there's a huge need for wildland fire public information officers, especially in the western states. Fire is all around us, especially during fire season. So there is a need to be a qualified fire public information officer. There's a lot of kind of, I would say, easy ramps to get into it from the fire PIO realm into the Park Service, into other federal agencies. So the Job series is the 1035 public affairs officer, or public information officer. There are a lot of jobs and other agencies that are open, it would be surprising. I mean, the U.S. Mint and the, you know, the IRS as public affairs specialists. So a lot of people get into it from other agencies and then transfer to the National Park Service. But really, it's just getting firsthand experience at really any agency. Wildland fire is an easy avenue just because fires are always happening and they always need people to communicate with the public on the issues. And it can be a great way to also understand from kind of an incident management side of the house, because that is a big job and a key piece of what I do day in and day out is be a part of incident management teams that are coordinated and highly structured. So working within any type of incident management team in any role, you know that that can also be an easy way to get experience, to understand what a PIO does day in and day out.

Dave: Okay. Yeah, and probably learn some of the challenges to prepared.

Joëlle: Absolutely. Yeah. And if individuals have comfort in speaking with the media and being on camera and a lot a lot of people come from actually the journalism ranks, a lot of former journalists are coming to the world of public information with government agencies with that background too. So there's quite a few avenues in terms of entry into the job series.

Dave: Okay, great. What are the demands of the job? Like, what's your kind of day to day? What's the pressure like?

Joëlle: Yeah, so in general, every day is a little bit different and that's because things are ever evolving. So there is a large portion of the job that is reactive in nature. There's a lot that happens here with search and rescues in Grand Canyon, but also just things happening in the park. So any given day, I don't entirely know what's going to be on my plate. Sometimes there's a major incident that drops and we need information communicated to the public within a short period of time. A lot of my job is crafting news releases, engaging with the media, and I also help manage the social media accounts for Grand Canyon. And we have a great team also here that helps with a lot of the visual information as well as photography. So it is it is definitely a collaborative effort. I can't do everything on my own and I really rely on those in my office, which is the Office of Communications, Partnerships, and External Affairs, to help me on a day to day basis.

Dave: So it sounds like you could start out your track on one day at the beginning of the day, and it just changes middle of the day to if something drastically changes or happens.

Joëlle: Absolutely, Yeah. As of late right now, this recording, you know, we're in September of 2024 and August has just been a very busy month as well as the beginning of September. We have just had a lot going on, flash flooding, multiple fatalities within a short period of time. Right now, we have a live capture and transfer program happening with our bison on the North Rim. So just a lot is kind of happening this time of year in general. And a lot of times it's shifting and almost triaging the different issues. And what's important now, I, I kind of have to ask myself that every single day is like, what's important now? What's important for today? And some of it is kind of being reactive, but also trying to be proactive in communications and, um, anticipating what's ahead also.

Dave: Okay, like how do you begin to balance the need for all of this information? And because we have to give out information about especially sensitive incidents with like a respect for privacy, are there things that guide us in there?

Joëlle: Yeah. So I think a lot of it comes down to transparency. Being in the federal government, you know, we owe it to the American people and the public to be transparent in information. Of course, there are some sensitivities of how and what information is released, and there's a process to go about that. But people want to know what's going on in Grand Canyon. Like this is this is a great park and a lot of attention, you know, we have an audience of hundreds of stakeholder groups and different visitor groups, everything from Colorado River users to those who are concerned about uranium mining to, you know, tribal interests. So it is very complex, the stakeholder groups that we have here. And that's a really key piece of my job is making sure that people are informed and they know at the end of the day what's going on here. We're not trying to hide anything. And oftentimes we try to be proactive and overcommunicate, if anything, um the big issues that are going on in the park and what people should know.

Dave: Yeah, it seems like a lot of it is related to safety, too, and getting the warning out so people know how to prepare and not make mistakes or have more challenges later.

Joëlle: So yeah, absolutely. And I work really close with our preventive search and rescue coordinator, Meghan Smith. It seems like in the last couple of months we've really been trying to identify a strategy to talk about all the recent fatalities, as well as, you know, just how visitors can be safe when they're coming to Grand Canyon.

Dave: Yeah. Do you think this year has been like busier for that messaging than normal or about average?

Joëlle: There is definitely a lot more media interest this year, so this year is not atypical. We've had busier years in the past, but it seems like the media spotlight is on us right now for especially deaths in Grand Canyon. So we're trying to, you know, navigate that appropriately. And we're also working really closely with our Washington office because they're getting a lot of the same questions on the national level from media about why are all these people dying in national parks all of a sudden and as we know, you know, national parks, their, um, place that, you know, millions of people visit. And a lot of times the media interest and narrative has gone to, you know, what park is the most dangerous and Grand Canyon is not the most dangerous park, but a lot of people think and might have conceptions that it is just based on the amount of media attention the fatalities here generate.

Dave: So you're a mother and your husband also works at the park. It seems like a challenging job to balance work and life. So how does that all work out for you?

Joëlle: Yeah, so I do have a background in law enforcement. I was a law enforcement officer six years before I transitioned into public affairs. So having that background um it helps me empathize with my husband a little more and understand some of the stresses and challenges that he goes through. Um, he's also a paramedic for the park and, and does a lot with search and rescue. So oftentimes we will be on the same, the same incident together in very different capacities. I'm doing the public information side of the house and he's, you know, the actual one at the end of the rope helping somebody or at the end of a long line on a helicopter. So we have very different, you know, experiences doing incidents. But oftentimes it is nice because we do get a chance to work together in a very different way. But yeah, it's been a wild ride. We do have two young children who are three and four years old, so kind of navigating our jobs through that process and also being parents, it's been it's been crazy but very enjoyable. And you know, we still are we're in it right now kind of in the thick of it. Sound of children playing.

Dave: Raising kids at Grand Canyon, it's something that happens on North Rim at all, really. But here at South Rim, it's quite different. What's it like? You know?

Joëlle: Yeah, this is actually an amazing community for raising kids. And it is a small community of about 2500 residents year round. There is a small daycare center and a pre-K through 12th grade school here. It's a very small community and it's just a great way to raise a family. It's, you know, there are residential neighborhoods where, you know, kids play on the streets, you know, and it's a really warm and welcoming environment for families here, which is a big draw for a lot of families to come to the South Rim is just having that support network here. But also the services, you know, that come along with having a family. So.

Dave: Yeah, probably something you only find in a larger park, I would expect.

Joëlle: Right. And Grand Canyon actually has the only pre-K through 12th grade school in the entire agency. So that is kind of a unique thing about living and working here at Grand Canyon. You know, the school isn't more than half a mile away from any of the residential areas, and same with the daycare. So everything is relatively close, which also makes it a huge draw for people. You can be, you know, reliant on just biking and walking. You don't necessarily even need a car in a lot of situations, but yeah it's a very family friendly spot to be. Dave: I can't imagine growing up like walking distance to the rim of the Grand Canyon. Do you think that's a typical childhood for them? Is that going to be different?

Joëlle: Yeah, I, I don't know. Having young children, it seems like the Canyon is still a very foreign thing to them. And granted, they're at an age where we haven't done a lot of hiking in the Inner Canyon quite yet but it is kind of this mysterious thing to them a little bit. One of my children has a new fear of heights, or so they say. And so that's been challenging to navigate because we live on the South Rim of Grand Canyon. And what do you mean you have a fear of heights, like. I mean, it's a very natural instinct to have as a child, but we're still working through that right now and trying to be comfortable with heights and being on the rim of the Canyon. Yeah.

Dave: Yeah. Especially if Dad's hanging off a helicopter. It might be a little scary.

Joëlle: Exactly. They love the helicopters, though. They love seeing the helicopters take off and land. That seems to be a big draw. Dave: Well, that's good. Maybe you can work through that. Joëlle: Uh huh.

Sound of children giggling.

Dave: So in your role, who do you look up to?

Joëlle: That’s as a good question. I really look up to a lot of the people who I work with and around. We have an amazing photographer here in the park who's been here about 30 years. His name is Michael Quinn. Um, I look up to him constantly. The work that he's done and the work that he puts in day in and day out, he is definitely one of my inspirations, but also, you know, staff. I work with Jan Balsam, who's my supervisor and the Chief of the Office of Communications, and Partnerships, and External Affairs. She's been here in the park for 40 years. We're sitting right now in her office and she's also an inspiration. So I don't think, in my current role, I don't have to look far to kind of find these people who have just been here at the park for such a long time and have such a love and passion for this place and have stayed here their entire careers and have no interest in leaving. Grand Canyon kind of has put their hooks into them and they have they have stayed here a very long time. And that is inspiring in and of itself.

Dave: Yeah, I think it's remarkable that people stay that long in one park.

Joëlle: Mmhm And that's not typical, though. You know, the Park Service there is kind of this mentality that, you know, people bounce around. You go to Grand Canyon for a couple of years and then maybe you go to another park and to have people stay in one place for such a period of time, that's it's actually pretty unusual.

Dave: Yeah. Is there anything that you've really learned from them that you think you want to share?

Joëlle: Yeah, I think just the deep understanding and the relationships that they have cultivated in such a long time here, it's one of those things that takes a really long time to cultivate strong relationships. For example, with Jan, with the length of time she's been here, she has had such deep connections and ties to the Tribal communities and our partners here that it goes back decades and decades. And so that is something that is really powerful and has a lot of leverage and significance when you're talking about, you know, building partnerships and having trust in a federal agency, which can also be a challenge sometimes. But when you have people who are so dedicated and have been here such a long time, trusting is easier. So I think that's definitely something that it just takes time to cultivate.

Dave: Yeah, I can imagine that sort of managing Tribal trust is really challenging.

Joëlle: Absolutely and Jan, at least her, her previous background is in archeology, so she also has a really firm understanding of monitoring archeological sites and really understanding the Tribal significance in a lot of Grand Canyon issues.

Sound of children playing.

Dave: So we've talked about people that you look up to and learn from. Um, what do you hope your children will learn from you?

Joëlle: Yeah, I think the biggest thing I would love to impart on my children as they're growing up and as they continue through their lives is just having an appreciation for outdoor spaces and public lands, but also just land in general. I grew up on a dairy farm in Wisconsin, and early on it was very ingrained in me and the rest of my family just how precious land is. If you treat land well, it will give you much more in return. And so I think I've carried kind of that ethic forward in my life of just being a good land steward and that has evolved over the years, obviously, from my family's background in farming to even just working in the National Park Service. So I think that's probably one of the bigger things I would love to impart and imprint on my children.

Sound of children playing.

Dave: What are you the proudest of?

Joëlle: Yeah, I think right now in this stage of life is really just trying to stay grounded day in and day out. I do have you know, a very stressful job at times that can pull me in a lot of different directions. But at the end of the day, I'm going home at 5:00 to pick the kids up from daycare. And so I am able to kind of transition really quickly in the roles that I have throughout the day, which is no small feat. I mean, many working parents, I think, can empathize with that, too, of, you know, you have to switch modes really quickly and all of a sudden I'm PIO, but then I need to be I need to be mom for two young kids. So I think just trying to navigate kind of that switch on switch off of being a working parent right now in this stage of life is probably what I'm proudest of. Sound of children playing.

Joëlle: So while you were gone we learned a new dance in the morning called the soggy bottom dance.

Dave: Yeah, that, it sounds really challenging. Is there any other roles that you play in helping people to learn important messaging in the park?

Joëlle: Mmhm Oh, one of the collateral duties that I have that most folks probably wouldn't know much about is that I help manage all the filming and photography permits here for the park. And so these are everything from YouTube influencers to large production companies that come here to Grand Canyon and they want to film. They want to film a TV show, a documentary. They want to, you know, sell, sell something. So we have quite a large interest in people wanting to film here. And a part of my job is to issue those special use permits for people to come here and experience the park through the filming lens, which is really cool. So oftentimes I get to help out and assist with film monitoring, making sure that film crews are, you know, obviously respecting the natural environment, but also that there's no visitor conflicts that are happening and people are still free to go about and enjoy the park as is. So that's a really cool aspect. I've gotten to meet some cool celebrities over the years and as you can imagine, like everyone wants to come here to Grand Canyon to film. And so it's a great iconic backdrop. And you know, year round we have interest in people coming here to film.

Dave: Okay. Are there is there any types of films that you think have really stood out over the years or any in particular?

Joëlle: Yeah, one actually was for an HBO series and I won't name the actual series, but it had a character in the scene and they were scattering ashes of their loved one over the rim of the Canyon. That was a part of the storyline and the draw of why they wanted to come here to Grand Canyon to film. As some of listeners might or might not know but, Grand Canyon back in 2020 prohibited the scattering of human ashes out of respect for our Tribal communities. Grand Canyon is thought of as a living landscape, and so out of respect for our Tribal communities, that ban was in place. So it we had this filming request, though where I mean, it wasn't it wasn't real ashes, of course, but it was it was a little bit of a challenge to to come up and speak with HBO and talk about to them of the sensitivities around a scene like this. And we worked with them effectively to actually, they put in kind of their show notes at the very end of the episode, just with the caveat that this activity is illegal out of respect for our Tribal communities. So they were able to incorporate that into the episode despite it being shown.

Dave: Yeah. So that's good that they're able to share the correct messaging.

Joëlle: Yeah, absolutely. But that one definitely stood out and you know, there's others that along the way, you know, we, we sometimes have to guide filming in a way that's appropriate and not showing illegal activities taking place in the park or things that are unsafe.

Dave: Okay. Yeah. Um, I would think that that's hard to also try and navigate those conversations to try and, people come here with certain perceptions. But how do you get them to be like actually this is what we need to do here.

Joëlle: Yeah. I think that's, that's an important aspect is, is definitely the safety piece. There sometimes is this conception of, you know, Evel Knievel going over Grand Canyon and kind of the stunts that can be very dangerous if people are actually trying to attempt them on their own. So that's definitely a conversation that we have and a lot of producers are very respectful and recognize that they don't want to have a misperception of Grand Canyon and make it unsafe or, you know, encourage people to do anything illegal. So thankfully, we've had a lot of really positive conversations and they really understand that we're trying to protect this place and at the end of the day, keep visitors safe.

Dave: Okay. What should everyone know about the Grand Canyon?

Joëlle: Yeah, I think one thing that I'd love to highlight and maybe this is a lesser known aspect of Grand Canyon, is just how accessible it is for individuals with disabilities who might have mobility challenges. Most of the Grand Canyon here on the South Rim especially is very accessible. Our shuttle busses here are equipped with handicapped wheelchairs, and the rim trail itself is paved. That's, I think, one of the things that's surprising from visitors and a lot of feedback that we receive is just how welcoming in the South Rim can be for people of all abilities, all mobilities. So I think there's something here for everybody and that's part of the reason in my mind. What makes it a special place and probably a big reason why we have as many visitors as we do. So I, I love this place, place and park, and this is the longest I've had at any national park in in my time with the National Park Service. And I think it's got its hooks in me and I'm probably not going to be leaving anytime soon. And I think a lot of people I work with and certainly a lot of people who have spent time here at the Canyon can relate to that as well.

Dave: Yeah, it's also the longest I've ever worked in the park, too. So it's really interesting that we can find some stability in some parks and places.

Joëlle: Yeah. And it's not common in some parks, you know, but Grand Canyon seems to be one of those places that it gets to you, latches in.

Dave: Well, thanks for taking the time to talk with us and to share about your life and your job. Yeah, we're always excited to learn more from folks who work in the park.

Joëlle: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me, Dave.

Sound of children playing.

Adam (Joelle’s husband): I love it when my Apple Watch, alerts me that the decibel volume is too high for your ears. This is just parenting.

Dave: We gratefully acknowledge the Native peoples on whose ancestral homelands we gather, as well as the diverse and vibrant Native communities who make their homes here today.