Stephen Pyne, a renowned fire historian, discusses how climate change is creating unprecedented conditions for "mean fires" that overwhelm traditional firefighting approaches. He challenges the "war on fire" mindset, arguing instead for viewing fire as a biological force requiring public health-style interventions. Pyne talks about the need to distinguish between urban and wildland fire management, advocating for both hardened cities and controlled burns in wild areas. Drawing from historical lessons and Australia's experience, he warns that without fundamental changes in our approach, California's fire conditions will only worsen.