With science under attack, researcher Anthony Zador joins me to make the case for its value, especially of curiosity-driven basic science. We explore the charms of curiosity as a research motivator, what distinguishes curiosity-driven research from all the rest, federal investment in science -- and recent disruptions thereto and the gutting of American research, the "curse of knowledge", showcasing practical applications, debate in the lab, and what's to love about Gila monster venom and Yellowstone's thermal pools. Theme music by Sean Balick; “Waterbourne” by Algea Fields, via Blue Dot Sessions.