Mack and Steve show no forgiveness as they discuss one of the president’s broadest powers.

REFERENCES

Who does have the power? The President:

Constitution Annotated. “ArtII.S2.C1.3.1 Overview of Pardon Power.” Congress.gov. https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S2-C1-3-1/ALDE_00013316/

It depends on each state and each state constitution, but each state governor has it:

ACLU. “What’s at Stake.” https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/parole-and-release/clemency-and-pardons

A commutation:

Legal Information Institute. “Commutation.” Reviewed January 2025. Cornell Law School. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/commutation

A reprieve:

Legal Information Institute. “Reprieve.” Reviewed August 2021. Cornell Law School. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/reprieve

A pardon:

Editors of the Encyclopaedia Britannica. “Pardon.” Updated May 29, 2025. Britannica. https://www.britannica.com/topic/pardon

Carter’s pardon of draft dodgers:

Hernandez, Joe. “Seeking to Heal the Country, Jimmy Carter Pardoned Men Who Evaded the Vietnam War Draft.” January 4, 2025. NPR. https://www.npr.org/2025/01/04/1158874141/jimmy-carter-vietnam-draft-evaders-pardon

What is the sentence for dodging the draft:

Selective Service System. “Penalties for Failing to Register.” https://www.sss.gov/register/benefits-and-penalties/

Is there a governmental system where no pardon power is available? The short answer is no, but other countries regulate the power differently than the United States does:

Mellen, Ruby. “Pardon Power Is Common Around the World. Few Leaders Use It Like Trump Has.” Updated February 18, 2021. The Seattle Times. https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/pardon-power-is-common-around-the-world-few-leaders-use-it-like-trump-has/

So, in Texas, the governor has the power to pardon, but only if it is recommended by the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles:

Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles. “Clemency.” Updated January 2, 2019. https://www.tdcj.texas.gov/bpp/exec_clem/exec_clem.html

Crimes, not civil judgements:

LawHelp.org. “The Differences Between Criminal Court and Civil Court.” https://www.lawhelp.org/resource/the-differences-between-criminal-court-and-ci

It was legal under state law but the Feds picked him up:

Glaister, Dan. “California: Marijuana Law Goes Up in Smoke as Federal Agencies Raid Dispensaries.” August 10, 2008. The Guardian. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/aug/11/drugstrade.internationalcrime

If you want to learn more about the changing legality of marijuana:

Bryan, Kate. “Cannabis Overview.” June 20, 2024. National Conference of State Legislatures. https://www.ncsl.org/civil-and-criminal-justice/cannabis-overview

The president cannot pardon people convicted of state crimes:

Office of the Pardon Attorney. “Frequently Asked Questions.” Updated June 16, 2025. Department of Justice. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/frequently-asked-questions

Can a president pardon himself (asking for a friend):

Watson, Kathryn. “Can a President Pardon Himself?” Updated May 30, 2024. CBS News. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-a-president-pardon-himself/

If you don’t understand what Mack meant by “a common law principle,” here’s a nice primer:

UC Berkeley School of Law. “The Common Law and Civil Law Traditions [PDF].” https://www.law.berkeley.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/CommonLawCivilLawTraditions.pdf

You cannot indict a sitting president:

Legal Information Institute. “Indictment of Presidents.” Reviewed March 2023. Cornell Law School. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/indictment_of_presidents

Can a president pardon someone for future charges? The short answer is yes:

Office of the Pardon Attorney. “Frequently Asked Questions.” Updated June 16, 2025. Department of Justice. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/frequently-asked-questions

Ford pardoned Nixon in advance of any charges being brought:

Gerald R. Ford Presidential Library and Museum. “Nixon Pardon.” https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/digital-research-room/library-collections/topic-guides/nixon-pardon

What the pardon clause says:

Article II, Section 2, Clause 1:

“…he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.”

By the delegates who wrote the Constitution:

National Archives. “Meet the Framers of the Constitution.” https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/founding-fathers

Here are some of John Adams’ thoughts on government (you can imagine what he would do to your face):

Adams, John. “III. Thoughts on Government.” April 1776. National Archives. https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Adams/06-04-02-0026-0004

Sovereign immunity’s a thing:

Legal Information Institute. “Sovereign Immunity.” Reviewed April 2025. Cornell Law School. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/sovereign_immunity

Trump v. United States:

Oyez. “Trump v. United States.” https://www.oyez.org/cases/2023/23-939

Some of the implications of the Supreme Court ruling:

Cole, David and Kaufman, Brett Max. “Supreme Court Grants Trump, Future Presidents a Blank Check to Break the Law [Commentary.]” July 3, 2024. https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/supreme-court-grants-trump-future-presidents-a-blank-check-to-break-the-law

How does one impeach a president (asking for a friend):

USA.gov. “How Federal Impeachment Works.” Updated April 14, 2025. https://www.usa.gov/impeachment

It doesn’t have to be a federal law for them to be impeached:

Constitution Annotated. “ArtII.S4.4.2 Historical Background on Impeachable Offenses.” Congress.gov. https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S4-4-2/ALDE_00000699/

We’re going with criming now:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/criming

THE MIDTERM ELECTIONS ARE IN TWO YEARS:

U.S. Vote Foundation. “What are Midterm General Elections?” https://www.usvotefoundation.org/what-are-midterm-elections

In stereo:

https://youtu.be/Jne9t8sHpUc?si=XfiD4n308rcLfDlw

Usually, if the FBI is doing an investigation, it’s not public knowledge:

FBI. “Can I Obtain Detailed Information About a Current FBI Investigation That I See in the News?” https://www.fbi.gov/about/faqs/can-i-obtain-detailed-information-about-a-current-fbi-investigation-that-i-see-in-the-news

If you didn’t get the Signal joke:

Palmer, Kathryn. “Mike Waltz and the Signal Chat Fiasco: A Recap of His Involvement.” May 1, 2025. USA Today. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/05/01/mike-waltz-signal-group-chat/83386583007/

See Mueller Report:

Department of Justice. “Report On the Investigation Into Russian Interference in the 2016 Presidential Election [PDF with redactions].” https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/dl?inline=

When Bill Barr, rather duplicitously and cowardly, tried to characterize it as even Mueller had cleared him:

American Bar Association. “Mueller Finds No Collusion with Russia, Leaves Obstruction Question Open.” March 25, 2019. https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/

And Mueller issued a statement basically saying, “That’s not what I said.”:

Breslow, Jason. “READ: Mueller's Letter Expressing Concern About Barr's Summary of His Report.” May 1, 2019. NPR. https://www.npr.org/2019/05/01/719004457/read-muellers-letter-expressing-concern-about-barr-s-summary-of-his-report

While we highly encourage Mack to write a book someday, the title Profiles in Cowardice has been taken:

Kenneth Foard McCallion. Profiles in Cowardice in the Trump Era. (Bryant Park Press, Inc., 2021).

Previous presidents have granted pardons that look awful dodgy:

Zeitz, Joshua. “4 Presidential Pardons From History That Were Way More Controversial Than Biden’s.” December 4, 2024. Politico. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/12/04/biden-presidential-pardon-controversy-00192404

Pardoning a bunch of people who have committed violence on your behalf:

Reilly, Ryan J. “Trump Pardons Roughly 1,500 Criminal Defendants Charged in the Jan. 6 Capitol Attack.” January 20, 2025. NBC News. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/trump-set-pardon-defendants-stormed-capitol-jan-6-2021-rcna187735

When the news cycle is going against you, issue a bunch of pardons:

Flowers, Viola. “Here Are All of the Celebrities Trump has Pardoned so Far.” May 29, 2025. NBC News. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/are-celebrities-trump-pardoned-far-rcna209736

At the time of our recording, this is what they were trying to shove through Congress:

Hubbard, Kaia and Yilek, Caitlin. “Here’s What’s in Trump’s ‘Big, Beautiful Bill’ Passed by Congress.” July 4, 2025. CBS News. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/whats-in-trump-big-beautiful-bill-senate-version/

If you would like to see all of the people pardoned by the current president, including fun facts like which of them were supposed to serve life sentences and what crimes they had been convicted of by the United States Department of Justice:

Offices of the Pardon Attorney. “Clemency Grants by President Donald J. Trump (2025-Present).” Updated May 30, 2025. Department of Justice. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/clemency-grants-president-donald-j-trump-2025-present

If you don’t remember that scene from Jurassic Park:

https://youtu.be/nnun8y7r8_U?si=ncqAAUrTakvfewXW

A pardon is for a specific one-time event:

Dreisbach, Tom. “Criminal Records of Jan. 6 Rioters Pardoned by Trump Include Rape, Domestic Violence.” January 30, 2025. NPR. https://www.npr.org/2025/01/30/nx-s1-5276336/donald-trump-jan-6-rape-assault-pardons-rioters

Didn’t Biden pardon Liz Cheney:

Aljazeera. “Biden Hands Preemptive Pardons to Family, Allies Citing Trump Retaliation.” January 21, 2025. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/21/biden-hands-preemptive-pardons-to-family-allies-citing-trump-retaliation

For anybody at home who doesn’t know who Timothy McVeigh is:

FBI. “Oklahoma City Bombing.” https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/oklahoma-city-bombing

In case you were wondering what Trump was doing during that time:

Geewax, Marilyn. “Trump’s Financial Movies in the ‘90s: ‘Genius’ or ‘Colossal Failure’?” October 3, 2016. NPR. https://www.npr.org/2016/10/03/496314538/trumps-financial-moves-in-the-90s-genius-or-colossal-failure

There was a Supreme Court case on this:

De Vogue, Ariane and Cole, Devan. “Supreme Court Says Person Can be Charged and Tried in State and Federal Court for Same Conduct.” June 17, 2019. CNN. https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/17/politics/supreme-court-double-jeopardy-clause-case

We must have gotten our true crime stories confused, y’all. Apologies. Ángel Maturino Reséndiz, the Railroad Killer, was only tried for murder in the state of Texas, though he was convicted of other violent crimes in other states previously:

Palmer, Emily. “He Rode the Rails Killing People: How Authorities Tracked Down a Serial Killer.” May 12, 2024. People. https://people.com/people-magazine-investigates-angel-maturino-resendiz-railroad-killer-8646357

Clinton pardoning Marc Rich (that’s a classic):

Time. “Notorious Presidential Pardons: Marc Rich, 2001.” https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1862257_1862325_1862324,00.html

Biden pardoning his son:

Ferreira Santos, Sofia. “Biden Gives Son Hunter ‘Unconditional’ Pardon.” December 2, 2024. BBC News. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjwl3venz39o

Ford did make a point that we all knew what he did:

“Shortly after 8:00 o’clock the next morning James St. Clair came to my office. Although he did not spell out in detail the new evidence, there was no question in my mind that he considered these revelations to be so damaging that impeachment in the House was a certainty and conviction in the Senate a high probability.”

The Gilder Lehrman Institute of American History. “President Ford’s Statement on Pardoning Richard Nixon, 1974.” https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-resources/spotlight-primary-source/president-fords-statement-pardoning-richard-nixon-1974

Even somebody like Nixon could feel a certain amount of shame for some things:

CBS News. “Richard Nixon’s Resignation Speech [Archive video.]” August 8, 1974. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_DrUaJEBtE

Singapore Sling:

https://www.diffordsguide.com/cocktails/recipe/1825/singapore-sling-raffles-formula

If you want to get into the nuance of cherry liquor vs. cherry brandy:

Dingwall, Kate. “Cherry Heering vs. Cherry Liqueur: What’s the Difference?” June 6, 2024. Food and Wine. https://www.foodandwine.com/cherry-heering-vs-cherry-liqueur-8659440

Apparently, it did originate in the bar of the Raffles Hotel:

Raffles. “Where the Singapore Sling was Born.” https://www.raffles.com/singapore/dining/long-bar/

Diluted:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/diluted

Not deluded:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/deluded

Gin and Bitters:

https://www.thespruceeats.com/pink-gin-classic-cocktail-759332

Manhattan:

https://www.liquor.com/recipes/manhattan-2/

Dark and Stormy:

https://www.liquor.com/recipes/dark-n-stormy/

Steve watched Andor:

https://ondisneyplus.disney.com/show/andor

Anne watched Daredevil: Born Again:

https://www.disneyplus.com/browse/entity-85e7a914-c8e6-41db-95df-c740dc2cf1b7

We all watched Rogue One:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3748528/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk

Remember? The Alamo:

https://www.thealamo.org/

If you would like a nice summary of the Alamo history we discuss:

SanAntonio.gov. “Mission San Antonio de Valero (The Alamo).” https://www.sanantonio.gov/Mission-Trails/Mission-Trails-Historic-Sites/Detail-Page/ArtMID/16185/ArticleID/4459/Mission-San-Antonio-de-Valero-The-Alamo

As convincing as Steve sounded, we could not verify that they didn’t finish the bell towers because of taxation.

Here’s a map of the Alamo so you can follow along with Mack’s and Steve’s descriptions:

The Alamo. “Map of the Grounds.” https://www.thealamo.org/map

Learn more about the Alamo restoration that Mack visited:

The Alamo. “Alamo Plan.” https://www.thealamo.org/support/alamo-plan

Not familiar with the history of the Woolworth’s lunch counter in San Antonio? Learn about it from someone who was there:

Biediger, Shari. “San Antonio Woman Recalls Her Role in 1960 Woolworth Sit-in to Desegregate Lunch Counters.” February 6, 2023. https://sanantonioreport.org/san-antonio-1960-woolworth-sit-in-segregation/

The Ralston Family Collections Center:

The Alamo. “Alamo Exhibit.” https://www.thealamo.org/support/alamo-plan/alamo-collections-center

Yep, that Phil Collins:

Cobler, Nicole. “Phil Collins’ Star Rises Over the Alamo.” Updated March 11, 2015. San Antonio Express-News. https://www.expressnews.com/news/politics/texas_legislature/article/Phil-Collins-star-rises-over-the-Alamo-6128672.php

Daughters of the Republic of Texas:

https://www.drtinfo.org/Members/Members/About-Us/Who-We-Are.aspx?hkey=10153a9c-2543-4967-b2da-838d568e767a

Chacho’s no longer lists a Screwrita on their menu, but maybe if you ask nicely…:

https://chachos.com/

He’s pardoning people to enable them to support him illegally and violently:

Benen, Steve. “Jan. 6 Rioter Who Encouraged Violence Against Police Hired to Work in Trump’s DOJ [Opinion].” July 2, 2025. MSNBC. https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/jan-6-rioter-encouraged-violence-police-hired-work-trumps-doj-rcna216452

Mack and Steve are right, there are a lot of various reasons why people support Trump. These are just a few issues that some have cited:

Doherty, Carrol; Kiley, Jocelyn; and Deane, Claudia. “What Trump Supporters Believe and Expect.” November 12, 2024. Pew Research Center. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/11/13/what-trump-supporters-believe-and-expect/

The perceived idea of culture:

Alfonseca, Kiara. “Culture wars: How identity became the center of politics in America.” July 7, 2023. ABC News. https://abcnews.go.com/US/culture-wars-identity-center-politics-america/story?id=100768380

And finding a fly in your chardonnay (or anything else mentioned in the Alanis Morrissett song) is not ironic. But you already knew that because every time that song is played or gets mentioned, someone you know points it out, including Mack and Steve while we were recording but Anne cut that part out because, ohemgee, can’t we as a collective civilization move on already?