Join an insightful discussion between Andrew Holecek and Ken Wilber on integrating spirituality, science, and human development. They discussed Wilber's new book "Finding Radical Wholeness" and how it provides a comprehensive overview of waking up, growing up, opening up, cleaning up, and showing up as vectors of transformation. A major topic was distinguishing between waking up experiences and growing up stages, as well as clarifying the pre-trans fallacy around interpreting early fusion states as enlightenment. They also dialogued around expanding notions of matter and consciousness, with Wilber arguing that interiority exists at all scales from quarks to humans. Overall, the discussion provided valuable insights into integral theory, stages of human development, and how to apply these concepts through integral life practice to facilitate personal and social evolution.