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Ross Garren, Rob Paparozzi and Liam Ward join me on episode 128, to discuss the harmonica playing of Bob Dylan.
The early part of Dylan’s career is chronicled in the current biopic, A Complete Unknown.
Ross and Rob were the ‘harmonica coaches’ for the movie. Ross recorded most of the harmonica used in the movie and the soundtrack, with Rob contributing one song and also providing support on the East Coast. Ross shares the painstaking process of recording for such a major music movie, how he studied Dylan’s playing in great depth and the challenges that Dylan’s style of harmonica presented.
Liam runs the highly successful LearnTheHarmonica.com website. He was inspired to take up the harmonica from hearing Dylan, and released a series of tuition videos on some of Dylan’s harmonica playing.
Love him or hate him, Dylan has popularised the instrument which has been an integral part of his iconic songs since the early 1960s.
Links:
Spreadsheet showing all songs using harmonica on Dylan’s studio albums:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10HnAQSoN2ubvq5LrNCQhaGQF5hCobQ1myc8qvj-7gzI/edit?gid=0#gid=0
Harp keys used on Dylan’s albums:
https://dylanchords.com/content/dylans-harp-keys
'Untold Dylan’ article on Dylan as ‘master harpist’:
https://bob-dylan.org.uk/archives/9903
Liam Ward ‘Learn The Harmonica’ website:
https://www.learntheharmonica.com/
Videos:
Liam Ward tutorial on Mr Tambourine Man:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IwFW_oCaxU&t=47s
It’s All Over Now: Newport Folk Festival 1965:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcWaHBOFkUw
Dylan playing harmonica in the hand (not rack):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJbddZjbDTM&t=256s
Dylan playing as a harmonica player only with Harry Belafonte:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YibIueuzTNM
Timothee Chamalet talks about A Complete Unknown on the Graham Norton show (UK):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_g3nNcurQU
Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com
Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB
Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ
Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
--------------------------------
Blue Moon Harmonicas: https://bluemoonharmonicas.com
Chapters
1. The harmonica playing of Bob Dylan with Ross Garren, Rob Paparozzi and Liam Ward (00:00:00)
2. Neil was a big Bob Dylan fan in his late teens (00:01:46)
3. Ross played the vast majority of songs in the movie and on the soundtrack and was involved in the project for a long time for Rob got involved (00:02:24)
4. Rob got involved to help with cast someone to play a mid-forties Sonny Terry, which turned out to be Steve Bell (Carey Bell’s Son) (00:02:45)
5. Ross actually played the Sonny Terry part though, not Steve Bell (who appears in the movie) (00:03:26)
6. The music side of the movie was done by a team who worked on The Color Purple from a few years back, which Ross also worked on (00:03:39)
7. Ross recorded the harmonica parts in LA, then filming moved to New York, where most of the movie was recorded (00:04:19)
8. Ross and Rob both provided harmonica coaching to Timothee Chamalet on how to play the harmonica (00:04:35)
9. Ross started working on the movie around two years before it was released (00:05:41)
10. The movie was originally incepted before Covid, but that and the movie writer’s strike delayed it, giving Timothee Chamalet plenty of time to prep to play the music and to play Dylan (00:06:36)
11. Ross gave about five harmonica coaching sessions to Timothee (00:07:26)
12. Ross and Rob are on the credits on the movie as ‘harmonica coaches’ (00:08:04)
13. Rob’s role as harmonica coach was to coach Timothee on how to mime to the harmonica parts Ross had already recorded with Timothee keen on it looking authentic (00:08:17)
14. Rob coached Timothee to play a part on harmonica which Rob thinks Timothee recorded for the movie (00:09:50)
15. Timothee recorded parts of the movie with the harmonica reeds removed so he could mime, with Tom Halchak at Blue Moon providing some harmonicas for the movie (00:11:50)
16. Liam has done some harmonica coaching for a movie in the UK where they used harmonicas without reeds (00:12:48)
17. Liam found that the film makers want exaggerated movements from actors playing the harmonica and did Ross and Rob also coach Timothee on authentic harmonica movements (00:13:24)
18. Ross recorded a lot of material that wasn’t used in the movie and some of songs were more complicated which may have called for more miming from Timothee, rather than playing them (00:14:51)
19. Rob decided it was better to coach Timothee with a rack on, as that is how he would be filming it (00:15:51)
20. Dylan was often quirky and erratic in his movements when playing harmonica, and how to teach Timothee to do that (00:16:39)
21. Timothee put a lot of work in to get the visual parts of playing the harmonica correct (00:17:22)
22. Rob tried to get Timothee to use an authentic rack from the 60s but Timothee found it uncomfortable so didn’t use it (00:17:38)
23. Hohner Marine Bands were used in the movie, and Golden Melodies weren’t out at that time (00:18:32)
24. Rob gave some Big River harmonicas (via Blue Moon) to the movie crew (00:19:04)
25. The different parts of the harmonica community involved in the movie across the US (00:19:15)
26. Kinya Pollard also provide some harmonicas for the movie (00:19:29)
27. Ross did lots of recording for the movie, around 150 hours, much of it at home in his studio. Lots of these recordings weren’t used (00:20:32)
28. Made extra recordings at the end which synced better with the visuals on the movie (00:22:08)
29. Ross is interested in how they mixed the sound for different ambient conditions (00:22:34)
30. Harmonica features heavily in the movie (00:24:13)
31. Rob compliments Ross on how he played the Dylan parts, considering his unorthodox style (00:24:31)
32. Rob recorded some harmonica on a Judy Collins Dylan album (00:25:34)
33. Recording sessions often call for specific parts, like Dylan, or Neil Young, which aren’t the sort of harmonica session harmonica players play like (00:26:11)
34. How Ross went about learning some of Dylan’s harmonica parts (00:26:43)
35. Ross thinks Dylan could well be the most well known harmonica player (00:27:38)
36. Did Dylan start the revolution of singer / songwriters playing harmonica on a rack? (00:28:10)
37. Woody Guthrie played on a rack and no doubt inspired Dylan to do so (00:28:27)
38. Jimmy Reed also played on a rack before Dylan (00:29:44)
39. Ross hasn’t done a recording session where he had to emulate a player so closely before (00:29:57)
40. For the informal / live clips in movie Ross listened to Dylan live clips to learn them (00:31:04)
41. Ross decided not to use a rack when recording the parts for the movie as he isn’t an accomplished rack player (00:31:32)
42. Ross had to be careful not to add hand effects when playing the parts with the harmonica in his hands (00:32:01)
43. Are a couple of scenes in movie where Dylan played harmonica held in hands (00:32:38)
44. Ross watched some videos of Dylan playing harmonica so could learn some of his physical movements when playing harmonica (00:33:16)
45. Dylan has a strong attack when playing harmonica (00:33:50)
46. Balance Ross tried to strike between playing Dylan note for note and capturing the hectic vibe of his playing (00:34:17)
47. Recapturing the early 1960s recording techniques was another challenge (00:35:58)
48. Ross took all day to record the Sonny Terry scene, with Joe Filisko providing remote support (00:36:34)
49. Ross was keen to represent the playing of Dylan and Sonny Terry accurately (00:37:07)
50. There is a soundtrack album available of the movie where you can hear the songs Ross and Rob play on (00:37:41)
51. Liam runs the very successful Learn The Harmonica website and did a ‘Bob Dylan’ week where he tabbed out five songs of Dylan, available on YouTube (00:38:45)
52. One of the first YouTube videos Liam made was on a Dylan song, and the difficulty in tabbing out Dylan’s playing (00:39:26)
53. Dylan was the reason Liam took up the harmonica and he defends Dylan’s playing (00:40:38)
54. In the videos Liam teaches the melody lines of the songs, rather than closely tabbing out Dylan’s playing (00:41:16)
55. Dylan plays a lot of melodic lines (00:41:39)
56. Liam tries to teach by pointing students in the right direction and allowing space for students to work part of it out themselves (00:42:01)
57. Ross discusses how the nuances of harmonica playing often don’t lend themselves well to tab (00:43:12)
58. Ross had to learn live versions as well as studio versions of Dylan’s playing (00:44:04)
59. Ross studied Dylan’s style so much that he picked up the nuances of his playing more than with any other players he’s studied (00:44:39)
60. Rob talks of how Dylan’s playing is put down, but that it’s actually difficult to emulate (00:45:56)
61. Dylan played quite a bit of second position (00:47:03)
62. When Dylan played (and plays) as a solo artist, the harmonica is his only melodic instrument and he captures a lot of different moods with it (00:47:11)
63. Dylan’s playing is very relatable to people and his music has a rawness, with the music supporting that (00:49:33)
64. Similar artists (such as Bruce Springsteen and Tom Petty) use the harmonica in a similar, simple manner, which is equally appealing to the audience (00:49:54)
65. Dylan defines what the harmonica means to a lot of people, despite it’s rudimentary level (00:50:19)
66. Playing the rack is a limiting factor, but he always serves the song and is quite possibly the best songwriter ever (having also won the Nobel Prize for Literature) (00:50:46)
67. Liam picked out 30 favourite Dylan harmonica songs (00:51:26)
68. Liam shares rough percentages of the positions used by Dylan: 1st position 60%, 2nd position 35%, 4th position on a few songs, one 5th and one 12th position (00:52:07)
69. First eight albums have most harmonica, that dwindled for a while but then made a comeback (00:54:06)
70. Some of Liam’s favourite Dylan harmonica songs (00:54:23)
71. ‘Music isn’t about ability but suitability’ (00:55:06)
72. Dylan has recorded harmonica on over 150 songs and bad solos only really appear on live recordings (not studio recordings) (00:55:34)
73. Liam believes the vilification he receives from some of the harmonica community is uncalled for (00:56:34)
74. Dylan is probably the most commonly known harmonica player to the man on the street and the responsibility that brings to him as a harmonica player is probably unfair (00:56:45)
75. Dylan did some session work as a harmonica player only (not on a rack) early in his career (00:58:12)
76. One of Neil’s favourite harmonica songs of Dylan’s is Pledging My Time (00:59:06)
77. Ross likes some of the less polished harmonica performances from Dylan, and the uniqueness of each performance (00:59:45)
78. Dylan and Neil Young are two of the most famous harmonica players and they deserve respect for that (01:01:16)
79. Dylan is known for having a bad singing voice, especially later in his career, and possible impact on his harmonica tone (01:02:04)
80. Dylan also plays piano (01:02:29)
81. Liam saw Dylan around 2010 and couldn’t recognise a lot of the songs (01:02:36)
82. Dylan is a creative force and his harmonica playing is part of that (01:03:12)
83. Liam appreciates Dylan’s imperfections, making him what he is (01:03:51)
84. You hear so many acoustic guitar players trying to sound like Dylan on the rack harmonica, without getting his distinctive sound (01:04:39)
85. Dylan has recorded plenty of blues songs on his early albums, but didn’t play harmonica on them, maybe in deference to good blues harmonica playing (01:05:02)
86. The harmonica has a certain innocence in pop music by being played in a rudimentary style by certain famous artists, including Dylan (01:07:39)
87. Dylan used part of Paul Butterfield’s band when he went electric, and Butterfield may have inspired Dylan’s electric set at the Newport Folk Festival in 1965 (01:09:04)
88. Dylan never really played or recorded ‘proper’ blues harmonica, or played amplified blues harmonica (01:09:43)
89. Dylan used some blues harmonica players in later recordings, including Sugar Blue on the Desire album (although the songs never made the final album) (01:10:13)
90. Charlie McCoy played on the Blonde On Blonde album (01:10:24)
91. The harmonica was an important part of the complete whole of a Dylan songs (01:10:30)
92. More on Dylan playing blues songs, without much, if any, playing of blues harmonica (01:11:04)
93. Dylan only used session harmonica players occasionally, as he wanted to play the harmonica parts himself (01:11:51)
94. The crowd would goes wild when Dylan plays harmonica at one of his live shows (01:12:27)
95. An article ‘Dylan Master Harpist’ by Mike Johnson compares Dylan’s harmonica playing to John Coltrane and Charlie Parker (01:13:04)
96. A wealth of online material on Dylan’s harmonica, as well as books and You Tube videos tutorials (01:13:43)
97. Dylan’s extensive use of the E diatonic and Liam’s breakdown of keys used by Dylan: G harp 23%, C harp 20%, E harp 15% (01:14:01)
98. The remaining keys Dylan uses are in a typical order of common use: D, A, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, F#, Db, B (01:15:35)
99. All Along The Watchtower is played in 4th position and Dylan more recently may have used minor tuned harmonicas (01:16:20)
100. Rob owns one of Dylan’s chromatic harmonicas (01:17:09)
101. Don’t believe Dylan has ever played any chromatic harmonica, although used one in photoshoots (01:17:43)
102. Dylan played Hohner Marine Bands, then Special 20s and Blues Harps (01:18:01)
103. Hohner released a Bob Dylan signature model diatonic, one of which Rob sent to Timothee Chamalet (01:18:12)
104. Ross felt the study he made of Dylan’s playing in preparation for the movie recordings really helped him look closely at it for the first time (01:19:14)
105. Some of the things Ross learned from Dylan’s harmonica playing included tone and note density, and being effective with a relatively limited technique (01:20:27)
106. Dylan has the ability to summon different moods and flavours with his harmonica across a range of different songs (01:22:11)
107. With the early songs recorded in mono, they sound different with modern playback techniques (01:22:46)
108. Dylan is what got Rob playing harmonica, with his brother a fan when young and so exposing Rob to his music (01:24:22)
109. As a session harmonica player Rob feels it’s his job to be able to emulate players like Dylan, as the session demands (01:24:56)
110. Rob congratulates Ross on the amazing job he did recording for the A Complete Unknown movie, and Ross is the new Tommy Morgan (01:26:13)
111. The movie will bring more exposure to the harmonica (01:26:36)
112. Dylan was the inspiration for Liam to take up the harmonica and to give him his career now in the harmonica and has come full circle in looking at Dylan again (01:26:53)
113. Liam thanks Ross and Rob for their work on the movie and the mainstream exposure it brings to the harmonica (01:28:10)
114. Liam is hopeful that there is more to come from Dylan’s harmonica (01:28:41)
115. Neil’s closing remarks are that he has enjoyed re-listening to Dylan’s songs as part of the podcast preparation and remembering how much he loves the songs and the part the harmonica play in them (01:28:58)
137 episodes
