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"Transcendence is the connection with something wider; the world, the cosmos, nature, other fellow human beings, and doing good in this life"— Dr Lindsay De Wal

When Dr Lindsay De Wal became the first non-religious head of chaplaincy in the NHS, she redefined what spiritual support can look like in modern healthcare. From sceptical colleagues to international media headlines, her appointment marked a turning point for inclusive pastoral care.

In this powerful and personal conversation, Lindsay shares how she built a humanist framework for care grounded in deep listening, horizontal transcendence and unwavering compassion.

In This Episode

  • Why only 4% of hospital chaplaincy visits serve non-religious patients
  • How the Netherlands became a global leader in humanist pastoral care
    What “horizontal transcendence” means—and why it matters in non-religious care
  • The art of active listening and the power of silence in emotional support
  • How to become a humanist pastoral carer—and why demand is growing fast
  • The rise of the Non-Religious Pastoral Support Network across the NHS

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Chapters

1. Introduction to Dr Lindsay de Waal (00:00:00)

2. Journey into Humanist Pastoral Care (00:02:00)

3. Difference in Approaches to non-Religious Care in the Netherlands & UK (00:03:57)

4. Becoming the First Non-religious Head Chaplain (00:07:03)

5. Defining 'Spiritual Care' (00:13:04)

6. The Art of Listening and Presence (00:15:07)

7. Creating Inclusive Chaplaincy Services & Person Centred Care (00:19:32)

8. Practical Changes and the Future of Humanist Pastoral Support (00:21:37)

9. Information on Becoming a Humanists Pastoral Carer (00:24:38)

10. Areas for change in the NHS & Pastoral Care (00:27:21)

11. Changing minds on Caring What Others Think (00:30:06)

38 episodes