Welcome to episode 32 of Inside The Outer Loop. In this episode, Rich Jordan and James Walker are joined by special guest Jim Hazen, seasoned test automation architect and quality consultant. Together, they discuss the evolution of testing, the challenges faced in the industry, and the importance of education and critical thinking in testing. Jim shares insights on the misconceptions surrounding automation, the shift towards technical skills, and the impact of AI on testing practices. James and Jim emphasize the need for a mindset change in management regarding the role of testers and the tools they use, advocating for a collaborative approach to testing that values both technical and business perspectives. Listen to the full episode to learn more! Inside the outer loop – brought to you by the Curiosity Software team! Together with industry leaders and experts, we uncover actionable strategies to navigate the outer loop of software delivery, streamline test data management, and elevate software quality. Tune in to transform the way you think about software delivery, quality, and productivity!