“There’s something very spiritually dark about the internet,” the author Paul Kingsnorth tells Ross Douthat in this week’s episode of “Interesting Times.” Kingsnorth warns against the expanding presence of technology in our lives and declares it “the war against human nature.”

• 00:06:10 - Defining "The Machine"
• 00:08:03 - Ecological vs. Spiritual Collapse
• 00:15:03 - The Case for Modernity
• 00:24:02 - The Four Ps of a Healthy Culture
• 00:28:39 - Collapse, Revival, and The Internet
• 00:34:05 - Thiel, Musk, and The Antichrist
• 00:42:37 - The Choice in 'Alexandria'
• 00:46:44 - How to Live Within The Machine

(A full transcript of this episode is available on the Times website.)

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