Synopsis: As military spending soars, how does the Lucas Plan present an alternative model?

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Description: With the passage of the Republicans’ “Big Beautiful Bill” and NATO allies pledging to more than double their spending on defense as a portion of all economic output, military spending around the world is soaring, while spending on meeting social needs and the climate crisis is on the chopping block. Governments often justify spending public money this way by saying it will create good jobs, but what if the workers themselves had a say? Fifty years ago, employees at Lucas Aerospace, a huge military contractor in the United Kingdom came up with an alternative plan. Their approach, known as the Lucas Plan, used the workers’ same expertise, but directed production away from bombs, towards goods that actually help society. In this special episode, Laura heads to the UK to interview some of the original workers involved in the Lucas Plan and investigates what one senior government minister at the time called "one of the most remarkable exercises in all of British industrial history.” As she says, it’s as relevant now as the day it was conceived.

“What we're talking about is a poor economic choice that's being made to posture . . . and look like a big military power in a world that's growing increasingly unstable.” - Khem Rogaly

“One of the things that the Lucas Plan has done is actually made it fairly clear to people that there are choices. You're given the impression that you have to make weapons. No, you don't. You're given the choice . . . The issue here is who controls technology and who should control technology, and should it be used to free people or should it be used to enslave people?” - Philip Asquith

Guests:

• Brian Salisbury: Former Lucas Aerospace Shop Steward

• Philip Asquith: Former Lucas Aerospace Shop Steward

• Hilary Wainwright: Co-Author, The Lucas Plan: A New Trade Unionism in the Making?; Co-Editor Red Pepper magazine

• Khem Rogaly: Senior Research Fellow, Commonwealth; Author, A Lucas Plan for the Twenty First Century: From Asset Manager Arsenal to Green Industrial Strategy

ADDITIONAL CREW: Stanley Arlidge - Episode Producer, Clementine Malpas, Tiger Nest Films

SPECIAL THANKS: Karen Bell, Joe Guinan, Steve Schofield

MUSIC CREDITS: Thrum of Soil by Blue Dot Sessions and original sound design by Jeannie Hopper

RESOURCES:

- Watch the episode released on YouTube July 11th 5pm ET; PBS World Channel July 13th, and on over 300 public stations across the country (check your listings, or search here via zipcode) and airing on community radio (check here to see if your station airs the show) & available as a podcast July 16th.

-Related Podcast: Uncut Conversation featuring Brian Salsibury, Former Lucas Aerospace Shop Steward

-Related Podcast: Uncut Conversation featuring Hilary Wainwright, Co-Author, The Lucas Plan: A New Trade Unionism in the Making?; Co-Editor Red Pepper magazine

Full Episode Notes are located HERE.

Recommended book:

• “The Lucas Plan: A New Trade Unionism in the Making?” by Hilary Wainwright and Dave Elliott, Learn More

Related Laura Flanders Show Episodes:

Democracy & Capitalism: A Failed Experiment?: Watch / Listen: Uncut Conversation - Episode

Community Wealth Building: An Economic Reset: Watch / Listen: Uncut Conversation - Episode

Dollars and Democracy: Participatory Budgeting: Watch / Listen: Episode

• From Cleveland, OH to Preston, UK. Community Wealth Building, Watch / Listen: Episode

Related Articles and Resources:

• A Lucas Plan For the Twenty First Century From Asset Manager Arsenal to Green Industrial Strategy, by Khern Rogsly, October 2024 - Common Welath

• The Lucas Plan the Way to an Alternative Security Strategy, by Khem Royally, December 11, 2024, Rethinking Security

• UK to cut green levies on businesses in bid to reduce energy costs and boost manufacturing, by Jessica Elgot and Rob Davies, June 22, 2025, The Guardian

•. Decarbonising and diversifying defense in the US and the UK: A workers’ enquiry for a Just Transition, Decarbonising-Defence.co.uk

• Wortley Hall, the Worker’s Stately home, a member of the co-operative union

•. US Defense Secretary Called Europe ‘Pathetic.” Two BU Experts on Whether the Alliance Is Damaged, by Rich Barlow, March 27, 2025, Boston University Today

• ‘I will not protect you’: Trump Threatens to Abandon Nato Allies, Kaitlan Collins, October 11, 2024, CNN

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