The observation that, “justice is merely incidental to law and order” has been on my mind more often than not these past few months.

Though possibly apocryphal, the quote is attributed to J. Edgar Hoover and – irony aside – is a solid piece of logic.

As you may have guessed from the subject-line, today’s episode is not going to be a jovial one. I also think it happens to be one of the most important we’ve ever recorded.

And while the subject of immigration carries the weight of policy and politics, THIS conversation is about the laws that already exist – the same one’s all attorneys are sworn to uphold.

My guest this week is Astrid Munn, Lead Attorney for the Center of Immigration and Refugee Advancement.

Her work centers around providing direct representation to clients who have survived violent crime, domestic violence, and severe forms of trafficking.

Astrid and I discuss the consequences of cherry-picking language, the impact of the current legal climate on legal education, and why so often the important work goes unseen.

Enjoy the show.

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