Gwen and Whitney sit down with business development coach Steve Fretzin to explore how lawyers can grow their practices without “selling.” Steve shares how he helps attorneys build systems for client growth, overcome ego barriers, and turn consistency into success. He also shares stories of lawyers who doubled their books of business through simple, repeatable strategies.

Key Timestamps:

00:00 – Gwen welcomes Steve Fretzin and introduces his background in legal business development.
02:00 – Steve explains how he began working with lawyers after the 2008 recession and discovered their lack of business training.
04:30 – How lawyers differ from traditional salespeople and why they adapt well to structured systems.
06:00 – Why lawyers’ love for learning makes them ideal coaching clients.
08:30 – How Steve builds trust and helps lawyers open up in a safe learning environment.
10:30 – Why practicing communication skills repeatedly leads to long-term success.
13:00 – How one employment attorney built a multimillion-dollar book of business through structured business development.
16:00 – The power of saying “no” faster and focusing only on ideal clients.

About the Show:
Off the Clock is a podcast for lawyers and law firm owners who want to build profitable, joyful practices that work for their lives—not the other way around. Hosted by Gwen Griggs and Whitney Harper, each episode shares practical insights to help attorneys step off the billable hour treadmill and into a business that truly supports their goals.