What if conflict isn't something to avoid—but something God actually designed for our growth? In this episode, Jessie, Chris and Jacob dive into the messiness of relationships, discipleship, and community. With stories ranging from roller derby and MMA training to awkward church staff meetings and theological tension, this conversation explores how conflict, when embraced and handled well, can become a catalyst for transformation. Whether you're navigating hard conversations in your church, your marriage, or your leadership team, this episode offers wisdom, laughter, and practical insight into how messiness might just be part of God's good and perfect design.

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Jessie Cruickshank is a disciple-maker, wilderness guide, and ordained minister. She has trained thousands of people how to survive when their life depended on it and earned a Master’s degree in experiential education at Harvard to learn how the brain works to help people train more effectively.

The key to discipleship is not more information, but learning how to create intentional environments where people can learn and grow. By working with the brain and treating individuals as whole persons, you too can discover how God wired our brains for transformation. You already have all the tools you need, it is time to activate them in you and your church.