In this episode, Scott and Deb share a very real, very recent experience from sacrament meeting—realizing that life had gotten “a little too horizontal.” Between family worries, recovery relationships, expectations, holiday pressure, and performance mentality, Scott found himself giving everyone his attention except the One who can actually heal him.

Using the imagery of the cross—horizontal beam for our relationships with others and vertical post for our relationship with Deity—they explore what it really means to “strengthen the vertical.” They talk about John 15’s invitation to abide in Christ, Doctrine and Covenants 6’s call to “look unto [Him] in every thought,” the AA journey of surrender, and Deb’s powerful campfire story about giving Christ what we most want to hide.

If you’re feeling stretched, noisy inside, or spiritually “untethered,” this conversation is an invitation to stop trying to achieve Jesus and instead learn how to receive Him—especially in the middle of the Christmas crazies.