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When the business case for inclusion meets political backlash, leaders must decide whether to abandon the work or make it more durable. Julie Kratz, professor at Indiana University’s Kelley School of Business and CEO of Next Pivot Point, built allyship programs that have directly influenced tens of thousands of people and then watched revenue drop to zero, forcing a hard pivot that reshaped how she teaches, consults, and packages this work.

Behind the headlines, Julie walks us through a practical, measurable model: multi-month cohorts (typically 3–4 months) that combine short skill bursts on cultural intelligence, inclusive language, microaggressions, and bias with an apply and unpack cycle - leaders learn, practice with their teams, then return to reflect in live coaching. Her Amazon case study expanded from one leadership team to multiple cohorts (about 200 leaders so far), and pre/post assessments show roughly a 20–30% lift in participants’ ability to practice these skills; Julie pairs that client work with university teaching, books (including We Want You - An Allyship Guide for People With Power), a podcast, and free resources to scale impact.

  • Embed allyship into existing leadership curricula, teach specific skills, require application, then measure knowledge, confidence, and ability with pre/post checks.
  • Use a cohort-based apply → practice → debrief loop to increase accountability, psychological safety, and real behavior change.
  • Run discreet systemic audits (hiring, promotion, pay-management) as “quiet cleanup” so policy and practice align before public reporting.
  • Engage people with power through bridge-building: frame allyship in terms of decision rights, budgets, and operational impact so leaders adopt and codify changes.
  • Treat disruption as a long game plan that pivots, protect founder resilience (allow grief, diversify channels such as teaching and books), and maintain the capacity to re-scale when demand returns.

Join us with Julie Kratz as she shows leaders how to turn allyship from talk into measurable leadership practice that strengthens teams, talent pipelines, and long-term organizational resilience.

🏆𝐀𝐫𝐞 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐚 𝐏𝐌𝐏? 𝐄𝐚𝐫𝐧 𝐘𝐨𝐮𝐫 𝐏𝐃𝐔𝐬 𝐟𝐫𝐨𝐦 𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐬 𝐩𝐨𝐝𝐜𝐚𝐬𝐭!

👉View this Episode’s Full Show Notes at ScaleTalesPodcast.com.

© Copyright 2025. Scale Tales is an Equilibria, Inc. podcast. We're dedicated to providing resources to support founders, leaders, and project managers of fast-growing organizations in scaling back-office operations without pain and chaos. Visit our website to learn more.

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45 episodes