What if instead of thinking of you as an employee, your boss and workplace treated you like a valued customer? My guest and HR transformation expert, Dart Lindsley, knows that industrial-age management practices are not working. He champions a new approach to how we design our work in organizations by treating work as a product that every organization builds and sells to their employees. Dart believes that by treating work as a product and employees as customers, organizations can build and deliver work that makes employees feel alive while delivering better results for all stakeholders.

In this conversation Dart and I had a wide-ranging discussion that includes his re-frame of work as product, how this approach opens new possibilities and benefits for people and organizations, the problem with the “working dead,” lessons learned from over 25 years of working in people operations functions at Cisco Systems and Google, his background as a student of literature and how he applies what he learned from literature and writing to his corporate roles, and more. Dart thinks deeply about the world of work and how to bring more humanity and satisfaction to our work life and beyond.

*A special thank you to Karen Faith for her voicework and creative contribution to this episode.

ABOUT OUR GUEST

Dart Lindsley is the CEO and Co-founder of the work experience design firm 11fold. Previously he led Global Process Excellence for People Operations at Google, and HR Transformation at Cisco Systems. With a unique background spanning two decades in literary arts and business architecture, he is the author of the Harvard Business Review article "Reimagining Work as Product" and host of the "Work for Humans" podcast. In his work, Dart argues that work is a product to which employees subscribe, so all companies are multi-sided with employees forming one side.

ABOUT MAKING BUSINESS ART

Making Business Art is a podcast for curious people where we explore how to make our work more meaningful and enchanting. We draw lessons and inspiration from entrepreneurs, designers, scientists, creative leaders and artists about ​making business and its offerings a source of inspiration and connection for ourselves, our teams, and the people we serve.

This podcast is the creation of and hosted by me, Ezequiel Williams. I work as an innovation strategist and facilitator who helps brave leaders and teams co-create new ways to win over and keep customers and talent. Join me in deep conversations about creating powerful connections with the people we serve, while making art out of our business and life.