Remarkable World Commentary Podcast: A Bi-Weekly Podcast Exploring Global Perspectives on Accessibility, Advocacy, and Inclusion

"Remarkable World Commentary" is a bi-weekly podcast hosted by Donna J. Jodhan, a passionate advocate for accessibility and a prominent figure in the disability rights community. In each episode, Donna shares insightful perspectives on pressing global issues, with a particular focus on topics that shape the future for people with disabilities. Through thought-provoking discussions and interviews with leaders in accessibility, disability rights, and advocacy, "Remarkable World Commentary" offers listeners a platform for learning, reflection, and inspiration in the journey toward a more inclusive world.

Every episode of "Remarkable World Commentary" covers essential themes such as:

• Global Perspectives on Accessibility and Inclusion: Donna provides a broad look at accessibility efforts and challenges across different countries, highlighting successful initiatives, advocacy efforts, and policies that aim to improve the lives of people with disabilities worldwide.
• Interviews with Influential Leaders in Advocacy: Donna brings listeners in-depth conversations with advocates, policymakers, and thought leaders in the fields of accessibility and disability rights. These guests share their experiences, challenges, and visions for creating a world where inclusivity is the norm, not the exception.
• Examining Societal Barriers and Changing Attitudes: Donna delves into societal attitudes toward disability, discussing how stereotypes and misconceptions can create artificial barriers for individuals with disabilities. Through her discussions, she promotes a more accurate and respectful understanding of disability, empowering listeners to recognize and challenge these biases.
• Highlighting Legislative Efforts and Legal Victories: With her background in accessibility law, Donna discusses important legal milestones and legislative actions that impact the disability community. She explains recent developments, such as the Accessible Canada Act, and explores the global significance of such policies in fostering equitable opportunities.
• Advocating for Accessible Technology and Innovation: Technology plays a critical role in creating inclusive societies. Donna spotlights the latest in accessible technology, reviewing innovations that empower people with disabilities to access information, communicate effectively, and navigate the world more independently.
• Focusing on the Future for Children with Disabilities: Donna is deeply committed to ensuring a brighter future for children with disabilities. She discusses the unique challenges they face and highlights the work being done by educators, parents, and advocates to create opportunities and promote self-confidence among young people with disabilities.
• Inspirational Stories of Resilience and Achievement: "Remarkable World Commentary" frequently features stories of resilience from people who have overcome personal and societal challenges. These stories of achievement and courage serve as powerful reminders of what can be accomplished when barriers are broken down.
• Exploring the Role of Art, Media, and Culture in Shaping Perceptions: Recognizing the influence of media and the arts, Donna explores how film, literature, and visual arts impact public perceptions of disability. She discusses representation in media and the importance of inclusive storytelling in breaking down stereotypes.
• The Intersection of Accessibility and Emergency Preparedness: In light of global events, Donna addresses the critical need for inclusive emergency preparedness. She discusses the unique vulnerabilities faced by people with disabilities during emergencies and examines policies and practices that prioritize their safety and well-being.
• Promoting Community Engagement and Collective Action: Donna believes in the power of community to drive change. She encourages listeners to get involved in local and global advocacy efforts, emphasizing that everyone has a role in creating a more inclusive world. Episodes often end with actionable steps listeners can take to support accessibility initiatives.
• Listener Reflections and Community Voices: Donna values her audience’s perspectives, and each month she shares listener reflections, questions, and stories. This interactive segment fosters a sense of community and shared purpose, reminding listeners that they are part of a collective movement for positive change.

Whether you are an advocate, a policymaker, or simply someone passionate about building a more inclusive world, "Remarkable World Commentary" offers valuable insights and practical inspiration. Donna J. Jodhan’s thoughtful discussions, combined with perspectives from leaders in the field, make each episode a rich resource for understanding global efforts to create a world where accessibility and inclusion are fundamental rights.

TRANSCRIPT

00:12

Greetings. Donna J Jodhan, LLB, ACSP and MBA invites you to listen to her bi-weekly podcast. Remarkable world commentary. Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts, insights, perspectives and more with her listeners. Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids, especially kids with disabilities. Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach, dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur, law graduate and podcast commentator.

00:49

She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge skills and expertise in access technology and information

00:58

as someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles. She just wants to make things better than possible.

01:10

How are you doing? I am well, how are you doing? Oh, we are doing just fine, yeah, yeah. But thank you for this opportunity. I really appreciate it. Well, it's a pleasure and a privilege to have you here. You know the pleasures online. Are you kidding? Well, you know, you're such a busy lady. You have so much on your plate.

01:34

Part of the job, getting the message out, answering questions. It could not have come at a very opportune time. It's a very crucial time for all of us. Yep, and you know, like we are in rough seas right now, right? And we want to know when we don't need to be. This is all very unnecessary. Well, I call it self-inflicted, an interview question, you know, self-inflicted wounds on the part of external powers, and now we have to deal with it. But I know, I've known you for a long time, and I know that you will overcome. He will do everything in our power. Yeah, overcome. So let's get started with the very first question. Okay,

02:26

what does it mean to you that you are the first lady, I don't like the word woman, the First Lady

02:33

in over a century to be leading the CNIB. What does this mean to you personally? And

02:41

you know, like, tell me what your feelings are. You have to deal with so many issues like di accessibility,

02:51

keeping the profile of the CNI be, you know, at its level, what does all this mean to you?

02:59

Well, I mean, I can tell you for certain that, you know, when I first walked into the C and I'd be building the baker wood building down here, decades ago, I won't say how many exactly,

03:13

that I never had any clue that I would be the CEO and president one day. I mean, that's just wild. Even when I started with CNIB

03:25

13 and a half years ago, you know, I was coming in to help with fundraising and messaging, and yes, it never crossed my mind. It wasn't until later, later on, that I thought, oh my goodness, I think I want to do this. So it's been a wild ride of the 108 year old organization of the eighth CEO. Yes, you're right, the First Lady woman. What have you

03:48

also that I carry with me, along with a ton of gratitude. It's a deep sense of responsibility as well, and personally, it's incredibly meaningful to be in this role, especially knowing the impact CNIB had on my own family, with my dad losing his sight, and it's so it's not just about being the first female CEO to lead CNIB. It's about what this moment says more broadly about leadership in our sector. So you know, John, I think now more than ever, to your point, leadership, it just it has to reflect the diversity of the communities that we serve, not just in terms of gender, but across race, disability, language, identity, lived experience. You and I both know intersectionality matters, so when we bring different perspectives to the table, we make better decisions, we build stronger teams, and essentially, we deliver more inclusive outcomes, which is what I'm all about. So yes, I'm proud of what the milestone represents, but I also see it as just one step. So I think the real goal is to keep the doors open and to create a space for the next generation of leaders who will be even more depth, have more of a depth and have more, you know, insight and innovation to this really important work. And I think that's that's really, really important today, maybe more than.

05:00

More than ever before.

05:02

Now, do you think that you know being a woman slash lady is it? Does this signify anything to the community or to Canadians with disabilities, or anyone listening in Down Arrow flag? You know, I think we're obviously, there was an international search, extensive international search on behalf of the board.

05:25

All it's saying is, is that we're, you know, we're we are progressing, and we understand that women play a role in leadership. And there's a there's a there's a disproportionate amount of women that represent are represented in the, not for profit sector, but not at the same leadership level. And I read somewhere Donna that there are more CEOs in the world named John than there are female CEOs in the world period. And so I find that kind of interesting, because it is, you know, and the notion was that

05:56

named John needs to make room for women like me and others in this and that's what's happened here. So I think, you know, really progressive leadership that I'm part of, joining nib, this board is very progressive. They understand the diversity matters. Diversity of thought is important. And I think that they that this is just indicative of the fact that that people are recognizing that the world is changing. And women have. Women have a role. They have a very significant role. We belong at all levels in a company, not just in the front lines.

06:27

It's a very heavy responsibility, isn't it? Diary, zoom, meeting items you know, like at this particular point in time, like, you know, we're facing so many external difficulties, right? And now, you know, probably a challenge within our own country. I mean, I don't know if you want to touch on that, yeah, no, I'm happy to, I'm not happy to, I'm unhappy to that. I have to, but I'm happy to share with you we had a cabinet, you know,

07:01

Tuesday that that no longer had a had a disability as part of it, as part of its composition. And I think you had, you had an excellent op ed in the paper. And there have been plenty of people, you know, rising up this, and it's not accessible. Why do we not administer this? Government has in their platform had a very, I thought, very good Disability Action Plan. Thought of being called out into somebody's title. How do we know who to go to now we I am fresh off a call with the Prime Minister's Office. Today, we have been affirmed that Minister Patty, had you, is the Minister of persons with disability. I don't know why they wouldn't just put that in a title. So we're working on that, and we need to have a conversation with the Prime Minister and the Minister who's whose ministers title is families and jobs, which, obviously we understand there's disability in families and jobs. But that's not the extent of all of it, to just understand who's going to navigate our roadmap. So I didn't, I think, yes, there are massive issues dealing very clear that he's focusing on US, Canada relations, and as he should,

08:11

abilities, losing their losing their voice in cabinet, or being done off the side of somebody's desk. So it's early days. I We will be meeting with Minister. How do you to hear from her? What priorities she sees, she expects, putting on the disability file. So more to come. I think the one you know silver lining is that we had a quick response the prime minister's office. They are reaching out to other disability organizations and trying to provide assurance. I hope we see that title, and then from

08:43

there, hopefully we

08:45

can establish a partnership with the federal government to do what's best in a Disability Action Plan, which, which includes an employment profile, which includes a youth profile, you know, which, which includes a number of things that that we've been advocating for for too many years. Do you think this was an inadvertent error, or was were we? I don't think we were deliberately left out. But what do you think led to this? It's a good question. I don't know. Donna, I know I went in the room.

09:17

I have to have I mean, I spent a number of years in the House of Commons. I understand that when you're in election mode, you're not really thinking about who your cabinet ministers are. You're knocking on doors. That is your number one priority. Let's win, and then we'll figure out who makes government. And then you have a very short window to make those decisions. And I know that this sounds it might sound ludicrous, but I you know things do get missed. Now to be completely clear, the government hasn't told us which one it is, and we've asked, we've not received an answer. They won't tell you, yeah, if we were missed, then that, to me, is actually, you know, and I this is very similar to what you wrote, if we were forgotten, well, why are we not have we not been lied?

10:00

Enough? Have we not been prioritized enough? Why were we forgotten in someone's title? Now I haven't seen mandate letters, and I would have, I would one of the asks our teammate today to the Prime Minister's Office is that every mandate letter should include a disability lens, because we are across the board, you name the DI ministry, we are impacted. So you know, if there is some notion that if we can embed more disability issues within each of the mandate letters of all the ministries, then you know, one would argue you may not need a minister one day. Okay, fine, but we do need one today. So we start with that Minister actually having disability persons with disabilities out called in her title so that every everyday Canadians know where to go. That's the issue. So the absence, I think, I think you're what you've described in some of the things that you've written. The absence here is is palpable. It's sending it's sending messages. I don't know that the government is intending to send the messages that that we've received, but having that empty seat at the table speaks volumes. And so I'm concerned we are having conversations. I don't know where they'll land, Donna, but I can assure you in the audience that we will do everything we can to make this right, along with dozens of other disability organizations that are doing the same thing that we are, because we're not alone. No, I think you know, it caught a lot of us off guard, and now we got to speak up and speak out. And we want to make sure that the Prime Minister hears us, that he understands, you know, we are here, you know, yeah,

11:31

right here. And we have work to do. We have started on a path, and I, and I've been, I've been critical of previous of the previous government, in particular about the, you know, how slow we are in making societal change under the Accessibility Act, the accessible, accessible Canada Act, yeah, and that we need to sort of come together, in my mind, kind of reset and create solution based strategies so that We can start to feel and to understand the difference that this act is actually going to make in our country as I don't feel it now. I don't see it now, Donna, I don't know how you feel, but I I know that there are a lot of people working really hard on various committees, and under the previous ministerial ministers that we've had the last 10 years,

12:21

results are not optimal. So, you know, can we as a disability sector get together and agree that, you know, it's time to do things a little bit differently, and what does that actually mean? So my hope is that this kind of a moment that's woken us up by not having a cabinet minister named after, after, you know, our responsible for our sector. Maybe it'll challenge us to do things a little bit differently and to make sure that our messaging is cohesive. It's direct and it's unified at every possible step. Maybe it's inadvertently going to unite the, you know, Canadians with disabilities. It's, it's, it's sort of a wake up call. Wake up, wake up. You know, it's time, folks. I mean, I agree with you. Things are not moving fast enough. And if we want to help the kids of the future, man, we got to get going about the future. Yeah. And I think, you know, look what happened with the president south the border, and what is, what he did, inadvertently, you know, brought together premieres and provinces like never before, and we're still talking about very real barriers to provincial trade that are that are soon to be coming down, right? This is the maybe this, maybe it was a mess. Maybe it was a miss, because it's included in somebody's mandate. But I really hope, and I have already seen in the last little while how quickly the disability groups look we don't always get along. We have fights over wordsmithing. It happens. I understand words are important, but you know, at the end of the day, if we now know that there's a government that's giving us a window, not a door, then we have to be more succinct, we have to be more united, and we have to be as strong as possible to agree on what it is we're looking for. And if we can get agreed and make it easier for the Minister to make a decision, then we will become a top priority in that portfolio, not the one that gets left off the title. So what's the next step for you? Of Europe? What does that look we with respect to the government and the prime minister? Yes, yeah. So we've, we've requested a minutes, a meeting with the Prime Minister and the Minister, Minister Patty hydro, with all the disability groups. That was just done today. I will be following up in a letter shortly. We just let the disability organizations know that we've been working with that. We've made that request, and I think that's that happened, the next step of leadership, with the minister and the Prime Minister, you know, really receiving every assurance that this this file is going to be actioned, that the Disability Action Plan was not just, you know, writing on a piece of paper in in a platform. And we'd like to hear from them how they plan on actioning their.

15:00

Their plan, which, as I said earlier, I think is a good plan, and if implemented properly,

15:08

sounds good to me. We'll see. So I apologize if you can hear me reading off my questions to you.

15:18

So do with over a decade vision for the organization development. Involved them? Dash, so that's the second question.

15:28

Let me This is about the vision for the organizations,

15:36

about the down arrow. Do With over a decade and see NIV organization, about them. Dash, did you get it? What are your top priorities now as CEO in this critical moment for disability, yes. So what are your priorities? Angela, I have so many. Yeah, a lot. I know I do, but that's it. As I should it's a big organization. It's a huge community, the priorities have to be big. So when I first joined cniv, my focus was on helping to build impactful programs for people within our community. And so over time, that vision has, of course, evolved. We've learned a lot, and we've improved what already existed. We've reimagined what's actually possible today. So at CEO today I see CNN user role not just as a service provider, but also as a driver of systemic change. So you know, we're not here to patch holes in an inaccessible system anymore. Those days are over. You're here to reshape them all together. So I think that starts with our strategic commitments. We're focused on ensuring that children with sight loss don't just, you know, get by, that they actually thrive. You know, we're challenging outdated attitudes and expectations about blindness. I don't have to tell you people don't understand the capabilities of somebody who is blind. We have work to do there, and we're working to ensure that every journey, whether it's physical, digital societal, is safe, accessible and seamless. But we can't do that alone. We need our allies. You know, big part of my leadership today is about blending lending CNN expertise to empower organizations to include accessibility and inclusion design from the start, like you and I, you and I both know how important that is, and that it includes absolutely everybody, from startups to policy makers to corporate partners, to, you know, other public influencers. We've got to tell more stories, and we've got to grow the allies that are currently in our pool. So I'll give you a great example. So my dad, I don't know if you might, if you haven't, my dad got the meadow, the meadow smart glasses recently. Oh, great. Truly game changing technology, of course, right? Have anybody who was blind in mind at the time, but they're they're making up for it. We're having conversations with with meta and be my eyes about about what's next, but, but so my father had had it for about six, six or seven weeks. Worked perfectly fine. Thought, You know what? This is great. This eliminates so many other gadgets that I have. They look good. They're light. You know, he's gonna get, he's gonna get the transition so they can be a bit darker in the sun because he has a bit of light, he can block out that sun. But then out of nowhere, the glasses stopped working. What? Yeah, oh yeah. This truly

18:18

so. And what I found frustrating, so for whatever reason, his AI enabled, his AI function was disabled on his device. We could not get it to turn back on. It was gone. It just poof disappeared from the menu, the device menu. And what I found incredibly frustrating was that as soon as he ran into an issue, there was absolutely nowhere to turn. Oh, yes, I hear you. No interface design with blindness in mind. They had it. They had bots that you had to speak to a certain number of times before you could actually request to speak to somebody live, somebody who's blind cannot navigate turn by turn instructions. If you're using VoiceOver anyway, you just can't navigate all the screens at the same time, because it'll show not the bot before it opens up the screen, right? And so, you know, I was like, I just need to talk to someone. Then you'd get someone that would send you an email that was a live person already,

19:13

as much as I could see, and they would just, they would give you advice, then you'd respond to it, and the next day, they'd have somebody else picking up the conversation and giving you the same advice you're seeing. It was madness. It was absolutely madness. And I thought, okay, you know, great that we have this technology. But accessibility cannot be an afterthought. It needs to be embedded from the beginning. If they, if these developers have sat around a table one day and said, you know, this is going to help. You know, 2 million people in Canada alone with blindness, I think they would have thought about, well, what happens when something goes wrong? And so I are so then, in my view, that's a great opportunity for CNIB to be in the to help with the training and the troubleshooting and the report back to the developers, you know, to have to have that.

20:00

That's that line into into meta and so so I you know that it was, it was an opportunity, but it was after a very two weeks of a very frustrating experience. So what ended up happening? We still don't know what happened. Oh, no, anyone's listening that has this issue? If your AI function disappears on your meta smart glasses, it it's likely connected to your Facebook profile, even though you have everything turned on and enabled. From an AI standpoint, for whatever reason, my father was shut out, so we had to upload my mother's Facebook's account,

20:31

and now they work fine. So, you know, it's these mysteries. So our priorities are about, you know, equality and innovation, but they're also about collaboration. So about it's about stepping into leadership, and not just for our own programs, but to help to raise the bar across the board, even with these big, you know, mega, mega tech companies. Because when accessibility, you know, if it's built from the start, absolutely everyone benefits. So we're trying to take lemons and turning them into lemonade any and every, every way, every step forward. Can't have these great things being created that could be changed, Game Changer members of our community, and then have them ripped away from us, right? With no reason. It just says, It's maddening. It doesn't make any sense. What part do you think the medical community could help? You know, I find that so many,

21:22

you know, like ophthalmologists or optometrists or even medical folks. Doctors, especially like, they seem so unaware of the capability and ability of of blind and vision impaired folks. And I find like, you know, like they just don't give us enough importance. They don't believe that we can do anything. I mean, I remember once going to an

21:50

ophthalmologist, and he said to me, in my lifetime, I will never have a medical solution. And I said to him, Doctor, is this what you would tell your daughter?

22:02

No answer. And I said, Please, would you tell your daughter this? And he couldn't answer. So what do you think, or how do you think the medical community can help us out here?

22:14

Well, you know, there's so many ways the medical community can help us out here. We hear from far too many parents in particular, that when their child is diagnosed with significant vision loss, it is often delivered as a death sentence, and their child's life is going to be limited. It's going to be minimal. They are not going to have friends. They are never going to go to school. You know this we can help. I don't think medical experts are doing this on purpose to make sure that somebody lives in isolation their whole life. It's just that they we have a very busy system. They're pumping patients out quickly. They're giving you the information you're moving on, giving you the information they're moving on. So we, we are working closely with the medical community and our partners, for example, at Vision Loss rehabilitation Canada, who have that direct relationship with the ophthalmologists and the and the and the family physicians in particular, to say, you know, there, if there is significant, significant vision loss diagnosis, you have a responsibility to refer to those who are in the vision loss adjustment space. You have a responsibility to not make any conclusive comments about the person, the child's future, and you have a responsibility to know what's out there for these individuals. So, you know, I start, starts with the doctors. We're working really hard to see if we can get into things like Grand Rounds for our ophthalmologists, and in front of the College of Physicians and Surgeons in the College of

23:43

family doctors. Sorry, no, I messed that up. I forget the college name. I apologize, but we're getting in front so we can get to medical students early on. So it's a no brainer, and just all you need to know is that there are resources out there for somebody who's who has lost a significant amount of vision, whether eye condition or accident, and there are, there's help out there, and that's all people need to know. And then, and I think if we can do a better job working with our allied organizations to help people navigate this space once, once and once the diagnosis has has been delivered, you know, because it's hard as as somebody who's, you know, there are programs in place provincially, federally, for children, for youth, for adults. You know, living with disabilities, they are almost impossible to navigate on your own,

24:31

especially if you have vision loss. So I think, I think there's a lot of awareness. I'd also love to see you know our medical space is more navigable. You know why it would be great to have technology that internal navigation and way finding, technology that will help you get to whatever room you need to get to at a hospital in particular or a medical building, you know, excited people walk around, lost all the time. I can't even imagine what it's like for someone trying to navigate the space with a cane or a.

25:00

My dog. So the medical community has got a big there's a big opportunity there, I think, for us to do more meaningful work and to educate more frequently, so that where they understand that they have a part in the journey. And it doesn't end with diagnosis. It actually starts with diagnosis. I agree.

25:17

Okay, let's go to the next question. Can you hear this against global backlash and Canadian leadership?

25:23

All right? Three, as we've seen a troubling rollback of di policies in parts of the world, Down Arrow, especially the u dot, s dot. What role do you see Canada M dash and cniv m dash playing in Down Arrow, resisting that trend and building something better. New Notification. So did you get that? I got it. Your co host is awesome, Donna.

25:44

You should give up a name. It should be, it should be your co host. Well, you know, I don't like this because, you see, you can hear me as I arrow down and I have, okay,

25:54

it's not, it's not, it's not bothersome to me at all. Thank you very much. Well, I think Canada has a real unique opportunity, and I believe a responsibility, quite frankly, to lead by example. It can't just be symbolic. It has to be backed up by action, by policy and by willingness to change the status quo. So at the Unity we're focused on making, on building, sort of made in Canada, solutions like the unique realities you know, that our community faces. So one of the clearest examples is our come to work program, our national flagship employment program. It has helped you know, you know, almost 2000 job seekers who are blind to date in the last few years, blind, deaf, blind, low vision with Inclusive employers, and the unemployment and underemployment rate for the population is still hovers above 50% so pushing for, you know, there was the resistance in the global di backlash means that going it's going beyond employment. So it means making sure accessibility is treated as a baseline expectation and not an afterthought. Here's the DI, and here's yet again, if it comes in after, it's not going to be very helpful. So, you know, not. CNB, I'm proud that we're dedicated to advocating for Inclusive Infrastructure, for equitable access to things like deaf, blind services and transit and greater representation of people with disabilities at decision making tables. So it's a long journey though. Donna, you know it doesn't happen overnight. So we're pushing for accessibility standards to be embedded across all levels of government policy, not just through legislation, but through everyday practice. Because when inclusion is seen as optional, it becomes the first thing to go when the road gets bumpy and look at where we are today.

27:35

EDI accessibility has been seen as a nice to have, in my view, across the board, and now I'm not saying there aren't companies and government representatives that believe in it strongly, but as a society, it's not embedded in our DNA the way that it should be. That is why we are where we are today, and that is why we get missed in things like Cabinet appointments. It's just not ingrained. So we have to work harder to make sure that we claim our stake and that we let people know that we're here to stay and that we are not to be missed, because we when things are made accessible, so much good happens everywhere else. So I think it's a critical moment. I think the world is shifting, and we have to double down and not scale back our commitments to equity, accessibility and human rights Canada, I think Canada can be a global leader here, but only if we're bold enough to act like one. And that's my message to the Prime Minister. Now here's my question, okay, I wonder, because the Prime Minister inadvertently signaled that, you know, we may not be important, whatever it is. Do you think that government departments and federally governed entities will take this to mean that, well, you know, we should be slacking off and we don't have to adhere to the accessible Canada Act. Do you think that they will take this as an indicator that this is not important. Yes, the Prime Minister has to fight many more priorities, you know. But what do you think companies and government departments are thinking now?

29:14

Well, I think it's a bit of a

29:20

lot happening right now. I think being on the Hill is a very, very busy thing. I think that there are a lot of priorities coming at government officials, left, right and center. I think that if we do our job as a community and call to the public light as much as possible, that we are here to stay. We are need to be prioritized, and we hold the government accountable. I don't think we're in this space where irreparable damage has occurred. I don't think we're there yet. I think if we were being ignored, I think if we weren't having phone calls, I think, you know, I'm like I said, we're seeing an effort to say no, no. You know, I'm sorry that it's on the title, but I should we, assure you it's going to be mandate letters.

30:00

That this is a top this is a priority for the government, so I think there's time to bounce back. I'm hoping it's a very, you know, quick, Whoopsie, and I don't know what that's technical term, and then they turn around and they do what's right, because we, you know, we can't go back 10 years now and start with nothing. I'm sorry. I just, I just don't think that's possible. So I'm hoping the government's willing to move and to make a statement. And I think that's the right statement is, here is the Minister responsible for persons with disability. It's in her title. Here is her mandate letter, disability community. That is your champion next to the prime minister. And as soon as we have that messaging, I think we can, we can kind of reverse any messaging or any innuendos that people can draw from last week's cabinet appointment announcement now the throne speech is coming up on May 27 Yes. Do you think there's an opportunity for Prime Minister Carney to put any or slip anything in there that would reassure Canadians with Disabilities. Like, is that possible? You think?

31:06

I mean, it's possible. I just wonder, when you you know I'm not part of the team there. I don't I know the king will be there. I expect these, these speeches are political,

31:19

and really send a message to other countries and send a message to Canadians. So is there an opportunity? Yes, we are pushing really hard for that to for the Prime Minister to find his voice when it comes to people with disabilities. And that would be it. That would be great. But even if it does make its way in the Speech from the Throne, and then we still don't have, you know, a minister that's that's called out rightfully so, and it's off the side of someone's desk, I would argue, didn't do anything. So it'll be interesting to see what happens. What happens next week, I will be in Ottawa, and, you know, knocking on as many doors on the hill as possible to

31:57

Yeah, but make, make as much noise as we can that we cannot be ignored. We need to be addressed. And if we are ignored, that's probably the worst thing that you can do to this community right now. So find your voice and start talking about us here, here, and if I can do anything to help you, I'm here. Get that. Donna. You. You are. You are in our in our tool of weapons. Oh, good lord. Oh no, no, no. All right, let's see what our next question is. Human Right. All right, Down Arrow justice of accessibility. Or many worry that accessibility is still seen as a left tick, nice, dash to dash had rather than a down arrow. Human Right. How do we shift the public conversation to reflect the urgency and Down arrow justice of accessibility work, I think you answered a lot of this. But do you have any final thoughts on this? Do I think we shift the questions around? How we shift public conversation to reflect urgency we shifted by telling the truth painfully, painfully and powerfully. Telling the truth is not always easy. No, I know that isn't a favor or a feature, it's a fundamental right about it. People are excluded from their workforce, from their education, from their healthcare, and from everyday life in their community. So that is the reality. Exclusion is still happening every day. I'm sorry Canada. I'm sorry Canadians, but we have a problem, and we need to fix this by changing the attitudes of those who are in policy decisions that do not have a clue about the disability community. 2023 analysis of Fortune Global 500 companies revealed that while over 92% had diversity and inclusion policies and 66.1%

33:39

referenced equity, only 16% even mentioned accessibility.

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So 92% had diverse, diversity, inclusion policies. 66% of those referenced equity, and 16 one 6% mentioned accessibility. That means 84% of major organizations are still overlooking accessibility and their policies altogether. And so I think what's happened here is, you know, with what's happened in the States, with, you know, Edi and quote over wokeness and all this stuff coming from their president

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is dangerous to us, right? Because we get brushed in the EDI stroke and some of the political motivations to move away from EDI

34:25

that makes sense for the President in his own world, in the US have nothing to do with accessibility for people with persons with disability. So, so I think that what is a political an overly political issue that is driving a certain sentiment in the US around diversity, in particular gender, all of that rhetoric that is just noise, quite frankly, that does absolutely nothing but hurt us as a society. It has captured accessibility and.

35:00

And has been thrown out the window in many cases in the States. So we have to focus on bringing it back. EDI is important diverse. We're Canada, for the love of whoever you believe in. You know this is, this is a this doesn't get any more diverse in this country. But I think that we have to call it back, and we have to not separate ourselves from EDI, but we have to make it abundantly clear that accessibility affects everyone. Doesn't matter your race, your gender, your sexual orientation, your any other parts of your intersectional identity, you can become a member of the disability community tomorrow, regardless of who you are, where you've come from, and who you identify as, and so that has yet to really make a statement. I haven't heard that statement yet. So that's our job. Our job is to say, you know, we cannot afford to go backwards, but we especially cannot afford to lose on the accessibility side, because it affects absolutely everybody in this country. This is not a niche issue. So I think, you know, we're focused on reframing the narrative. We're showing that accessibility is about freedom. It's freedom to move around the world, freedom to make choices, freedom to belong. So the more we ground work this work in real stories it gets, the more impact we're going to have. And the harder I hope, I hope, the harder it will become for people to ignore what's at stake in the way that they're ignoring us today.

36:28

I often wonder if I have two thoughts here, and I want, I wanted, to get your opinion on this. One is that people are afraid to think of disability because they are afraid that if they became a person with a disability, it would be traumatic, or they only think of disability when they are either directly affected or one of their family members. Is, I mean, my mom and I often have this conversation, and you know, what are your thoughts on this?

37:02

No,

37:04

it's so such a personalized journey. It's different for everyone. You know, I think I can talk about the blindness space in particular, I you know, was with a family last week in Nova Scotia in Halifax, with an eight year old boy named cam who is blind. He's got a buddy dog from our guide dog program. He uses his cane. He's, he's our, he's our campaign director for seeing I beast pub crawl. Right now, it's our annual fundraiser to raise more money for our guide dog program. And you know, it's, it's

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the father and the mother there.

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Rick was the father's name is the father's name. He's like, you know,

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people just assume that disability has to look like something, and Cam just looks like cam. Eight year old boy. It's like, it's, it's, you're only disabled what? Until you're not disabled, until, until somebody tells you you are, is what he said, if not sticks. And I think that's the opportunity is, why do we Why do we have to focus on what doesn't get done? We have to focus on the fact that we are people that happen to be living with diverse lived experiences, some physical, some cognitive, some sensory related. But all we're all still the same, people trying to navigate this really complicated world during a really terrible time. And so I can speak from the blindness perspective, I think that we, I'm so proud of, there are a number of young blind advocates that will use blind as as part of their identifier language. I haven't seen that before. I think when I, you know, when I first started at CNIB, we avoided the B word at all. Yeah, yes. It was about, you know, legally blind, partially sighted, vision loss. You know, we get you, can you name it. You've been, you've been part of all the cycles here. So we can't get away from the word. If someone chooses that they don't identify as blind because of the stigma that comes to it, then that's their choice. But I'm seeing, on my end, more and more people, especially in our young adults, saying, No, I'm blind. Here's I put on makeup. I'm blind. Guess what? I have a regular job. I'm blind. Guess what? My boyfriend broke up with me like anybody else does. I'm like so I think, you know, the more stories we have that are basically, you know, so what? I'm blind, and I have this, and I don't as I think what happens sometimes is we, in the past, we have over

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we've made celebrities of people living their regular jobs. And I hear this from the community, all the time. It's like, I'm just a regular person. I happen to live with sight loss. Why am I a superhero for being able to put on my pants, on one, you know, one leg, right? Or a family? And I hear that on the other end, you don't want to underplay it, because vision loss is a nuisance. You know? It can it, but blindness can be can.

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Can be, can be a nuisance, can be a difficult thing to live through. If you don't have the right tools, it can be extremely disruptive. So you don't want to, you know, underplay it either. So you've got to find this, this, this balance where it's like, you know, there

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you have the right to identify any way that you want. I think that we've got to find a balance between over glorifying and underrepresenting, because it's no big deal. It is a big deal. Absolutely you.

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If the world doesn't understand the fact that you're capable, you will have a very difficult life. And so we have to keep telling stories about the Donnas and the cams and the others that that are going on Living Life With Blindness and going blind and their their life actually doesn't look any different than yours, other than some accessible tech, maybe a cane, but but the life, the lived experience, is essentially the same. So how do we find this moment to tell more stories so that people can stop focusing on disabilities and just focus on people.

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What do you think of the difference between visually impaired and vision impaired? Do you think there is a difference? What are your thoughts on this? It depends on the person. I've heard so many, so many iterations to this talk. I don't, I think people are trying to say going blind

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that they can't see very well, and they're finding other ways to use words that, you know are more you know, in line, we have a language guide, you know, we start with, you know, if you want to

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identify as being vision impaired, you know, if that's if that's the best way to describe what you see then and how you feel, that's fine. You know, visually impaired, I I don't think, I just think these, these words have sort of morphed throughout the years. I don't think it's been with a particularly profound amount of intention. You know, legally blind. What does that mean? Are people, other people, that are illegally blind? You know, there's just, there's all this, all this jargon and this language that comes with us. It's, it's, it's, I get it, but, and I don't think we all have to agree on the term. I think what we have to agree on, and what I what I'd like to start introducing, is that blindness is a spectrum. It's a range, and people live all over that range, or that spectrum, whatever, whatever choose we use, we choose Word, we choose to use. So, you know, you can be on the low end of the range, and just recently, adjusting to vision loss, still have a degree of sight, you know, starting to go blind, and then all the way to the end of the spectrum where you're totally blind, and you born that way, and this has been your life. That's what blindness looks like. So I think if we can get away from worrying so much about the words we use to describe an individual's lived experience, and spend more time on the journey that somebody with living with blindness is going to be on, then I think we'll do ourselves more more good than harm.

43:08

Or you could take the David leposki approach, and I quote, I'm blind and I'm blind and I'm blind. What else do you want to know? He's great, isn't he? That is David.

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That is David's answer. You know, David is a legend, and David has done so much for this community and is and he is just such an amazing advocate, but he can't do it alone. He'll tell you himself, we've got to all sing on the same song sheet if we want government to listen to us, and it's not on the nuance things government's gonna mess up. They're gonna be all kinds of use that technical term again. Whoopsies. You know that are that, are that are done unconsciously we're not. This is not the first or the last time something like this is gonna happen. But if we can agree on the big stuff,

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if we can find ways to agree to make it easier for government to work with us and to recognize the allies and that are at the table and to really create a collaboration, then I think we'll be in a better space. I don't know, maybe I'm being optimistic, but I I just feel like the the

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community sees us in some ways and at times, not always as fragmented like I said. We don't always get along, we don't always agree that's okay, but when it matters, you know what we need to

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I think we're seen as often beating up each other, you know, get out of my way and this and that and the other. But I'm hoping that the circumstances that are taking place right now, that this will unite us and bring us together. I think the CNIB is in a perfect position to, you know, do this. And I know that you have thoughts on this, and we can talk about that later on, when you are, you know, ready to do so. But I will tell you, based with, you know, with, in the case of David, was I worked with David for two years on barrier freak.

45:00

Canada, amazing experience. I learned so much from this man. I mean, you know, it was either his way or the highway, but you know what I was there to learn, and I learned,

45:13

and if you don't want to work, don't go to David. If you want to work and you want to learn, suck it up and work with it.

45:24

That's what I would say. I think that's fair. You know, I think David has a lot of lot of success in this particular he's got the scars to prove it. Yeah, the man has not done this unscathed. He's still very, you know, influential, powerhouse in the community. But I think, you know, we've got to find different ways to work with each other. It's because it's not just David, it's, you know, it's so many other blindness organizations that exist that I know CNIB has cast a shadow on in the past. I'm not interested in that anymore. Yes, we're probably the biggest organization in the blindness space. That's okay. It doesn't mean that we can't play nice. It doesn't mean that we can't play in the same sandbox. It doesn't mean that we don't that we have to agree on everything. But as CEO here, you have a voice, and I will listen to you, and ultimately, you can hold me accountable to whatever decision that I helped to make alongside with my team and my board. But we've got to get ourselves together. We can't all agree to one thing, and then have members of the community, you know, speaking from the side of their mouth, doing other things, and that that has happened in the past, right? We, we notionally agree, and then something, we find some press release or some radio interview where it's like, that's not at all of what we agreed to say. So I think, you know, I like what you know. I think, I think I like what you're saying. You know. Could this be the the awakening? And maybe it is. Maybe it, maybe it means that sometimes we have to put perfection aside, and we have to be okay with being 80% where you want to be, just to drive something through the line. Because getting 100% across every organization in the blindness space and then in the pan disability space is absolutely impossible, and I think that might be one of the reasons why we haven't advanced as much as I would have liked to have seen us as a country since, since the adoption or the passing of the accessible Canada Act.

47:17

Maybe I think maybe I'm being harsh, maybe I'm being unfair. I'm just, no, I don't think so. My watching from the sidelines before becoming CEO, and you know what? I want to do something about it now that I'm in this position. Well, here's your opportunity. And you know, I think what concerns me personally is that we've lost some really

47:38

meaningful advocates in the past few years, like Chris Stark, I don't know if you know Chris Stark, yeah, this was my mentor, and Chris taught me a hell of a lot. We've lost John Ray, for better, for worse. John, you know, John would like punch Yeah, he would light the fire and stand back and laugh, waiting to see who would want to put put it out, right? I mean, you know you either loved him or you hated him, but he was there. He was a long time advocate. So my perspective, that's for sure. And you know, and we don't need everybody in the community to agree with us all the time, and I know we've had a bit of a past, maybe has gone through a lot. It's 108 years old. Show me a single, 108 year old that hasn't burned a few bridges in their lives or made mistakes. Lives or made mistakes, but I think we're this team is willing to say, we hear you, we accept it, you know, where appropriate, we're sorry, and let's move on together, because we're not going away. We're here to stay. Blindness is growing rapidly. More and more people are identifying because maybe they're feeling safer to maybe they're seeing more examples, people who are blind, that are living on other lives. I think for me, you know, the future I've got in five to 10 years in this role, that's, that's probably, you know that my lifespan here as CEO, I want to help to become a global leader in accessibility. I want C and I B's role to be very clear. You know, in that transformation, I want, I want to help to find a Canada that needs to invest in the next generation of change makers, because that's it. That's the other thing. We have a lot of people. We've named a few that have been lifelong advocates, that are, you know, nearing the end of their career, past the end of their careers into retirement. Where's youth? Where are the young voices that are going to build tomorrow? And how do we get them to understand that they are need to work in allyship with those who have been around for a longer time and have to have the have the burns and the scratches to prove their their you know, their time in the advocacy space. But how do we get them to invest and lead some of these conversations? Because sometimes it's the same same people. So I'd love to get a sense of how we can empower young people with disabilities, not just to participate, but to lead. I think their voices, their lived experience, and their ideas, they have to be able to shape.

50:00

Future from from the outset. So I think we're I'd like to see us committed to finding more Pathways for Youth Leadership and co creation in this space, because I think that's what's what that's what's missing today. We see them on social media. They've got a great story to tell. They're very effective, but they're absent in the change making, in the policy making space. And I'd like to do what we can not just see anybody itself with other organizations, bring them out of the woods and bring them into leadership roles to help drive some of this narrative. Is this conversation Donna is not going to be over, you know, after we speak to the Prime Minister's office for the next time, if this is this will be ongoing and living in perpetuity. So have we found our advocates that are youth today that aren't going to be young youth for much longer, that'll be, you know, in jobs, doing their parts, running Canada one day in the not too distant future? I don't know that we have,

50:58

you know,

50:59

you stole a question from me, because this is one of going to be one of my final questions would be, what would be your advice to anyone who wants to be a leader? And like for me, I think one of the first things, and you know about my transitioning to a new world program, about that off, off the record,

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they have to believe in themselves. First, they have to believe that I can fly. I can flap my wings and fly. I am somebody. I have something to give right, and then you build up their confidence and their independence. But I want to know from you, what advice do you have to our future leaders?

51:47

The advice I have for whatever it counts,

51:53

is to join us. Your voice matters. I don't care if you're not a poli sci major. You don't understand how government works, we can that's all teachable, but your voice not being part of what we're doing today is going to hurt the outcomes of the type of society that we believe you deserve. So join the fight now, and so that we don't have to fight forever. Thus, I think there's a home for you here. There are mentors. There are people with lots of experience and expertise that are happy to make sure that you have what you need to be part of this, this movement. But that's what it is we're trying to instill here is a movement. So join the movement. It's happening right now, and without your voice, you could easily be left behind. We're only stronger by the numbers, and we need to build them right now, because I know you're out there. So if you're listening in your youth, join the movement. Find us. Find your voice. Let's get some change going. Because I think it's right there. It's at our fingertips. I can feel it.

53:02

And how do you let them know what you've just told me? What? How do they hear this message? How are you going to post this message all over social media? I will continue to do that. My Instagram, LinkedIn. You know, the the all the places where the cool cats go to find information. I'm constantly pushing this message out. And the good news is that we have several youth that are part of our youth council and part of our local boards and what have you in our programs that are that are pushing this messaging out too. So it's more than just me. I think, I think youth who are blind need to hear from other youth that this place is a good place to start, and that you know, you're treated well, and you get a voice, and you get to do really great things. So I think our job is taking the message that I've just shared with you and making sure that all of our youth and those who have a platform are armed with it, and invite invite others to join.

53:58

Do you think our youth is ready? Do you think you know? Do we have to work on massaging their attitudes?

54:05

It depends on the youth. I am super impressed by the caliber of youth that come our way. I mean, my goodness, they are articulate and convict and speak with conviction those that are early on in their journey that need a bit of exposure. The good news is we've got lots of ways to train and to train people up, but there's a fire inside every single youth that's been given that diagnosis, that's been told that their role is going to be limited,

54:34

and that's been fighting it ever since that I can see unleashed when given these opportunities on various C maybe platforms and others. So I'm we need more more stories, more voices to really create the impact that we want.

54:49

What are your parting words as we come to the end of this podcast? What advice do you have for Canadians with Disabilities?

54:59

Oh, that's a big.

55:00

Question.

55:01

I told you,

55:04

what advice? Joy. I just the advice. I mean, it's not even advice. My thoughts on this is that there don't give up. Now,

55:14

the world is doing something very silly that I hope will boomerang back or to its home. I don't want us to see it as being deflated. I think the advice I have is to is to see what's happening in the world and to take responsibility and do your part. Do something about it. There are some advocates down on that will say, You know what? I advocate for myself every day. Sorry, clients that will say that I advocate every day and I don't want to advocate anymore for systemic change. Cniv, you do it fine. Then there are others that say, No, I don't want it to be CNN B's voice. I need it to be my voice, and that's fine as well. So wherever you land on that advocacy,

55:57

just find your way to do your part, because there are 2 million people out there that identify with having severe and prolonged vision loss. Where are these voices

56:09

join us like this is this is now the time. Find our moment. But don't walk away and expect someone else or the government having figured this out for you or that it's not worth your time. It absolutely is, because we're on to something. And I hope in the next few years, you know when I'm you know when I'm on my way out and somebody else is coming on the way in. I want to look back to this interview and say, My gosh, look how far we've come.

56:33

I hope and pray, and I'm very, very confident that you as a leader will make a difference. I mean, I will never forget the day you showed up in court.

56:46

There you were sitting at the back of another Angela. You came, you know, and this was a big

56:55

change, because in previous years, you'd not see CNI be participating in things like this, so that is a huge change, and I hope and pray that this continues. I am confident that we will catch the attention of the Prime Minister and his people, and that we would help to make a difference. And it's not just words alone. We got to support what we do, and we got to work with you, not work against you.

57:26

Well, I mean, I think that there's a good foundation here of lots of forever changes that have taken place. I think now our time is to open up those doors, invite our allies in. We don't need to be the ones in charge. We're happy to avail our resources as long as it gets done. I don't really care whether they're seeing IBS brand is on it or not. I just need to see change. And I think maybe in the past, we kind of got stuck around the hierarchy of things, and I'm not that kind of leader. It's not that time anymore. Maybe it made sense the time it doesn't anymore. So I'd like to grow the cnid tent to fit 1000s more than it does today, because that's I think unleashing those voices is what's going to make Canada more accessible and more inclusive for everyone.

58:12

Angela, it was a privilege and a pleasure to have had you on my podcast, and I do thank you for having taken the time to be with us today. The pleasure is all mine. As I said, thank you for bringing me and congratulations on the success of your podcast. I think you have a really great story to tell. Keep, keep doing what you're doing, and I'm happy to come back or I remember my team come we didn't even talk about Civ programs today.

58:36

So I don't know how much time we have left, but if you don't, we don't have any Oh, oh, darn well, then we'll have you back, because I want to

58:45

hear our member of our team. You know, I've got a number of members of we have a really good chunk of our team that has a lived experience that I think would be great talking to you about their program and both their attorneys. So, you know, just let me know the word and we'll, we'll get somebody and myself back. I'll have Aaron arrange it with you, but thank you so much, Angela, and have a great evening. You as well. Donna, thank you so much. All right. Bye, for now, we'll talk to you soon. Yeah. Bye, bye.

59:15

Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at [email protected],

59:21

until next time you.