In Episode 252, Kelly is joined by Ben Wise and Darren Chiu—two senior leaders at Google and co-founders of Captivate—for a raw and insightful breakdown of what truly drives persuasion in today’s world. They reveal why facts alone don’t move people, and how emotional strategy, trust, and authenticity are the real keys to influence. From sales calls to boardrooms, they show how mastering emotional connection will radically transform how you pitch, sell, and lead.

Packed with powerful concepts like the Pratfall Effect and the Maya Principle, this conversation digs into how the best communicators choose the emotion they want to elicit—before they speak. You’ll learn how to make people feel, how to build trust through imperfection, and how to stop pitching and start persuading. This episode isn’t just advice—it’s a playbook for anyone who wants to connect deeper, sell smarter, and lead with impact.

Key Takeaways:

1. Emotion is the first trigger in any decision-making process, and facts only come into play after the emotional choice is made.

2. Building trust and genuine human connection will always outperform even the most logical, fact-filled pitch.

3. Before you pitch, define the exact emotion you want your audience to feel—then tailor everything around creating that feeling.

4. Storytelling is a persuasion superpower because it activates emotion, builds relatability, and makes your message memorable.

5. Showing imperfection, like spilling coffee or tripping on stage, can make you more likable and trustworthy to your audience.

6. The MAYA Principle teaches that the best ideas feel new but still familiar—too much innovation too fast creates rejection.

7. True persuasion happens when you listen actively and adjust your message based on what the other person feels and needs.

8. Salespeople who focus less on impressing and more on understanding are consistently more effective and trusted.

9. Even cold outreach can create trust if it’s written with warmth, relevance, and emotional awareness.

10. Long-term success in persuasion doesn’t come from learning every trick—it comes from practicing and mastering a few core principles.

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