What could it look like to follow Jesus not only after the pain ends, but right in the midst of it? In this conversation, tenured psychology professor, author, and pastor Dr. Joshua Knabb helps us rethink the way we understand distress, challenging the modern tendency to pathologize every struggle. We explore the difference between pain and disorder, and why recognizing that distinction can open the door to greater agency, deeper compassion, and more grounded spiritual formation. Together we also look at the contemplative practices that build resilience and intimacy with God: why they matter, what gets in the way, and how to start. Dr. Knabb shares his favorite go-to spiritual practice that help people meet Jesus right where they are, and why it's helpful. You'll hear how engaging these practices can transform not only your connection with God, but also the way you show up in relationships with others. This episode will show you how psychology and discipleship are connected in following Jesus. Connect more with Dr. Joshua Knabb and his work on his website. Check out Dr. Knabb's podcast The Christian Psychologist Find out more about Dr. Carol Ministries in-person intensives - a safe place to unpack your story around intimacy and relationships, and experience Jesus coming into your story to bring healing and wholeness. Find out more about individual coaching with Dr. Carol Dr. Carol loves to hear from you. You can send a confidential message here.