Andrew moved to Atlanta and is going all-in on MetaMonster while Sean drowns in Miscreants sales calls! 🚀 They dive into repositioning struggles, the push vs pull dilemma, and why lead magnets might be the answer. Plus: DEF CON madness, Webflow disasters, and someone made an AI review of MetaMonster.

Links:

• Andrew’s Twitter: @AndrewAskins
• Andrew's website: https://www.andrewaskins.com/
• MetaMonster: https://metamonster.ai/
• Sean’s Twitter: @seanqsun
• Miscreants: http://miscreants.com/
• Margins: http://margins.so/
• Sean's website: https://seanqsun.com/

For more information about the podcast, check out https://www.smalleffortspod.com/.

Transcript:
00:00.50
Sean
What's up?

00:02.12
Andrew
What up, man?

00:02.99
Sean
Long time. Yeah.

00:04.19
Andrew
Has been a long time. When was the last one of these we did? Like, at least six weeks ago.

00:08.07
Sean
The last... I think the last one we did, you interviewed someone else. I was replaced.

00:12.88
Andrew
Oh, with Louie. OK.

00:14.20
Sean
Yeah. Yeah. That was good one. That good.

00:16.73
Andrew
Yeah, that was fun.

00:17.87
Sean
Yeah.

00:19.34
Andrew
It has horrible ah ah stats on Transistor. I haven't checked the YouTube stats.

00:24.88
Sean
Oh. but They just like me. You know? They...

00:28.93
Andrew
Let's see.

00:30.81
Andrew
Let's see, let's see. What? Has anyone listened to this?

00:36.56
Sean
You know we got 51.

00:36.86
Andrew
Oh, wow.

00:37.08
Sean
Uh-huh.

00:38.26
Andrew
oh wow. Our latest videos are not doing well. But to be fair,

00:44.08
Sean
Internally.

00:44.66
Andrew
yeah that episode, lol, I heard heard our autoplay video.

00:45.51
Sean
Mm-hmm.

00:49.74
Sean
Oh.

00:51.90
Andrew
43 whole views on on that that episode.

00:55.21
Sean
Not bad. Yeah.

00:58.62
Andrew
We're we're killing it.

01:00.08
Sean
Yeah. ah But we got 51 subscribers, so, like, i don't know.

01:05.20
Andrew
Do we really?

01:06.10
Sean
Yeah, 51 subscribers on YouTube.

01:08.78
Andrew
This is not going to be interesting to anyone listening. Like, we're the only ones who give a fuck how many YouTube subscribers we have.

01:11.100
Sean
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sorry everyone.

01:15.36
Andrew
Also, 50 is such a silly number.

01:17.60
Sean
Yeah.

01:19.98
Andrew
Yeah.

01:20.46
Sean
Can't wait for my 50 subscriber YouTube play button.

01:23.16
Sean
It's a cardboard with a little poop stain on it.

01:30.36
Andrew
Yeah, a lot has changed since we last chatted and also not a lot has changed.

01:33.88
Sean
Mm-hmm.

01:35.94
Andrew
I am now living in Atlanta.

01:39.28
Sean
And you're leaving me.

01:41.66
Andrew
and Well, just like we're not breaking up.

01:43.04
Sean
We're breaking up.

01:45.78
Andrew
We're going on a break. It's different.

01:47.22
Sean
wow Can I see other people?

01:50.18
Andrew
Yeah, sure.

01:52.08
Sean
We're breaking up. We're broken up. It's okay. It's okay. I'm happy for you. Anything I'm jealous.

01:57.43
Andrew
yeah so I'm living in Atlanta. I was, I working with scout last time we talked. to

02:03.08
Sean
Not on the podcast, I think.

02:05.94
Andrew
Okay.

02:06.60
Sean
Yeah.

02:07.80
Andrew
I have a new client. it's been a lot of fun. They're in, uh, you an AI agent platform for sales teams.

02:15.37
Sean
Yeah.

02:16.28
Andrew
and, uh, I'm basically a fractional CMO, which has been really fun. So I'm like, you hiring agencies and contractors and building marketing processes and trying to figure out how to, how to drive leads.

02:30.29
Andrew
got to bring in a friends agency. That's going super well. metamonster like, it's not like not going at all. Like I'm having it a couple of conversations a week probably, but, uh, they are not turning into customers. So,

02:49.04
Andrew
gotta figure some shit out there which is why i'm talking about taking a break from miscreants work for a little while to focus on metamonster yeah i don't know where do you want to start

03:02.24
Sean
Let's start, I mean, I don't know, let's talk about MetaMonster. Let's talk about like i feel like, I feel like we're chatting on Slack about like, you know, lead magnets and whether or not you have to nurture folks, you know, it feels like the people that are but you're speaking to are like interested but not ready to like buy or try.

03:20.75
Sean
are they Are they like, are you giving them a trial or

03:24.94
Andrew
Yeah, so

03:27.06
Andrew
we... Okay, so since we last spoke, we updated the Metamonster positioning. So we were calling ourselves like an SEO web crawler and sort of a ah ah site audit tool.

03:34.32
Sean
Mm-hmm.

03:42.18
Andrew
We've tried to move away from that to more of like an SEO automation platform. our new so our new h one um scale on page seo optimization with ai and we're trying to sort of position ourselves against like chat gpt and manual processes and you know we didn't we didn't go for like a category because i don't know that ah seo automation platform is like an established category today so i wasn't i wasn't sure that would be widely recognized enough to resonate with people so we

04:18.45
Sean
Yeah.

04:19.95
Andrew
sort of just have this like use case positioning and then we talk you know ah try to position ourselves against like doing seo work manually in with like just chat gpt or claude and then we've been working on totally revamping the product so know when we started it was like push button get meta descriptions and now

04:34.47
Sean
yeah

04:48.14
Andrew
We're, in the next week or two, going to be like phasing out the old UI and phasing in the new UI, which is all like, it's basically like a spreadsheet with AI superpowers.

04:59.62
Andrew
so you get a

04:59.100
Sean
you know

05:02.65
Andrew
you can crawl your site, get all of your site data in a table, and then run prompts, run prompts against like every page on your site.

05:14.35
Andrew
And we give you a bunch of prompt templates out of the box to let you do all sorts of things like page titles and meta descriptions, but also generate H1s and image alt text and structured schema and a bunch of other things.

05:30.18
Andrew
We also have like now have like site-wide chat. So you can use that for like site-wide analysis and one-off tasks like the blog post I just published for you last night about how to generate an LLMS.txt file, which by the way, you don't need, but you know, whatever.

05:48.41
Sean
Mm-hmm.

05:49.78
Andrew
okay. So we, so I've been updating the site to like include lots of screenshots and, and descriptions of the new ui try to update the positioning to be more use case focused, like scale on page SEO,

06:05.86
Andrew
as the sort of the use case and then we removed we didn't remove our pr...