As 2025 comes to a close, the conversation around in-housing has never been more confusing. With rising pressures on budgets and the disruption caused by AI, businesses are being forced to rethink what the right marketing structure might look like for them.

In this episode of the Smarter Marketer Podcast, Host James Lawrence speaks with Darren Woolley, Founder and Global CEO of Australia’s leading marketing management consultancy TrinityP3. Together they unpack the myths surrounding in-housing and outsourcing, and what research really says about cost, culture, productivity and creativity.

Key Takeaways:

• Why “in-housing vs. agency” is the wrong question to ask and what the right balance looks like
• The hidden costs that make many in-house teams more expensive than expected
• How in-house agencies can fall into creative myopia and how to bring external stimulus back in
• Why AI is more than just efficiency: accountability, smarter decision-making, strategic advantage and more
• The three challenges keeping marketers up at night: tighter budgets, proving ROI and keeping pace with change
• How agencies remain indispensable by offering perspective and speed that internal teams can’t easily replicate

Guest:

Darren Woolley is considered a thought leader on all aspects of marketing management - a problem solver, negotiator, mentor, Founder & Global CEO of TrinityP3, industry commentator, podcaster and author. He is also an ex-chair of the Australian Marketing Institute, an ex-president of the Melbourne Advertising and Design Club, ex-medical scientist and ex-creative director.

You can follow Darren on LinkedIn.

Find Us Online:

• James Lawrence LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jameslawrenceoz/
• Smarter Marketer Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/smarter-marketer-podcast
• Rocket Agency Website: https://rocketagency.com.au/
• Rocket Agency LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rocket-agency-pty-ltd/

Buy Smarter Marketer:

• Hardcover: https://amzn.to/30O63kg
• Kindle: https://amzn.to/2ZqfCWm

About the Podcast:

This is the definitive podcast for Australian marketers. Join Rocket Agency Co-Founder and best-selling author, James Lawrence in conversation with marketers, leaders, and thinkers about what it takes to be a smarter and more successful marketer.