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Forget the technical jargon. This conversation is about strategy, culture, and embracing the philosophy of "human and, not human or".
This episode is essential for Agile coaches and change managers seeking to lead their organizations through AI transformation, focusing on conditions, iteration, and human-centric design.
Key Discussion Points for Change Practitioners:
Shifting the Narrative: From "Loop" to "Lead" Rachel argues that the common phrase "human in the loop" is "almost derogatory". Instead, AI strategy requires the "human in the lead," meaning humans are taking control of the AI rather than allowing the AI to control us. Jason agrees, noting that while autonomous agents are hyped, a human must always direct and orchestrate the technology.
The Role of Context and Conditions AI success is "not about the tech, it's about the conditions surrounding it". Change managers must apply critical process thinking: if you automate a "crappy process," you just get a "quicker, more expensive, but still rubbish process". Success requires treating the AI just like an intern or junior—providing clear instruction, direction, and leadership.
Agile and Iteration in the AI Landscape AI systems are never "done and finished". Consistent with Agile principles, AI requires constant monitoring, checking, and iteration because change is constant. The organizational drive for "faster, better, cheaper," often focused purely on reducing headcount, risks leading to "bad quality" outcomes.
The Emergence of the AI Champion Jason proposes that change agents are perfectly positioned to morph into AI champions. Change practitioners build relationships and know the most about the organization, having context from "the office junior and the CEO". Rachel offers a framework using five strategic lenses—including Purpose, People, Process, and Practice (continual learns)—to ensure AI adoption is effective.
Addressing Cultural Challenges and Shadow AI The discussion tackles why employees often view AI either as a threat coming to take their job or as a tool allowing them to "put their feet up". Furthermore, organizations must contend with "shadow AI"—the widespread, uncontrolled use of AI tools by staff on their phones, even if banned by policy. Change agents must foster the psychological safety needed for employees to experiment, fail fast, and focus on using AI for "donkey work" so they can spend more time on creative and human-led tasks.
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The episode concludes with a powerful metaphor reminding listeners: "Only dead fish go with the flow." Change is inevitable, so choose to be a "live fish" by making choices and having input into your organization's AI future

Jason Little is an internationally acclaimed speaker and author of Lean Change Management, Change Agility and Agile Transformation: 4 Steps to Organizational Transformation. That Change Show is a live show where the topics are inspired by Lean Change workshops and lean coffee sessions from around the world. Video versions on Youtube