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Instagram: / samberneod Twitter: / drsamberne LinkedIn: / drsamberne Keywords children, patching, trauma, stress, mechanical symptom management, eye coordination Summary The conversation delves into the psychological and emotional effects of patching on children, highlighting how it can be perceived as punishment and the limitations of traditional mechanical approaches to symptom management. Takeaways Children have no context on why they're being patched. Patching can feel like a punishment to children. Long periods of patching may not be effective. Patching can add trauma and stress to children. Mechanical symptom management does not address underlying issues. Understanding eye coordination is crucial for effective treatment. Emotional support is essential during treatment. Parents should be educated about the process. Alternative approaches may be more beneficial. The focus should be on holistic treatment rather than just symptoms. Sound bites "Patching becomes like a punishment." "It adds more trauma and stress." "It has nothing to do with how to use your eyes together." Chapters 00:00 Understanding the Impact of Patching on Children 00:17 The Limitations of Mechanical Symptom Management Sam Berne (00:03.732) Okay, well, my first question is, how did you find me? Online, honestly, yes. Looking at lot of alternative methods for my daughter, and I found you. And what was it that resonated with you, with me? Sam Berne (00:29.454) Um, mostly, but I mean, there was a few things. First, I noticed you didn't wear glasses. So I thought that was, or at least most of your videos. So I thought that was already something that was different. Sam Berne (00:45.454) Yeah, you just had alternatives. And even the way you talk about some people like trying to I think you'd mentioned that prescriptions can, you know, be like a drug, and you can lean off of it. Yes. And I really like that idea. Because I think sometimes we jump a little bit too quick to to glasses. And sometimes, yeah, they just need more and more. Okay. Yeah. So What I read about your history is that in your daughter, you first noticed the eye turning at about 10 months. Is that right? And when did you actually either go to your pediatrician or ophthalmologist to have it checked out? Yeah. So I think it was like her one year appointment that the doctor, I had mentioned it and then he had said to go to an ophthalmologist. went there. It was so interesting. She had said that she didn't notice any eye turn, which is fine because it doesn't happen that often. So she didn't notice it in the appointment. she said that she's like, I don't know. She just said there's nothing to do with it. But then she said that my daughter was farsighted and then she just wanted to put glasses on. For me at 10 months old, I was just like, or a year, guess at that point, it just felt like, a one year old, like she can't tell me if it's too much if she can't see it. You know, if we put glasses on her, just felt like it just didn't feel right for me. Sure. Sure. Didn't land. We've been doing a lot of just waiting. I've been. Yeah, it's interesting when it's summertime and we're outside, it hardly ever happens. and now is, yeah, it's getting to fall. It's getting darker earlier. We notice it more in the darkness. It is a lot worse. If the room isn't well lit and it's quite dark, it'll be a lot worse. But if we're outside, we'll go camping for like a week in the summer and it will not happen while we're camping. So did you get the glasses prescription filled or did you just say, no, we're not doing the glasses? Sam Berne (03:08.75) No, yeah, we just we didn't I didn't get it filled or anything. I was just yeah, a bit taken aback, guess. Was there any pressure to do on muscle surgery? No, no. I know when I Google a lot, a lot of times people are saying that that is something to do with it also kind of freaked me out a bit. Yeah, the the ophthalmologist ended up going to actually was one that she did. seem to do more vision therapy and stuff like that, but. Yeah. So she, didn't jump on them. Good. That was a good choice. And what city are you in? I'm in Edmonton, Alberta. Okay. All right. I used to teach a lot of workshops in Vancouver. Okay. A lot of to the osteopaths and occupational therapists. this was pre COVID. I haven't really been back since, but I do have a good, good connection. Okay. So what you're looking for is what, what would be your ideal goals and objectives today? well, it's actually that you speak on occupational therapy. worked as an occupational and physical therapy assistant. So I kind of have a background a bit and it, guess I just felt like there was something we could do exercise wise. alternatively to just jumping on glasses. And I know there's a lot of people who doing patches in the surgery. So I just felt like there was some sort of alternative, whether it be exercises or food or supplementing or something like that. Yeah. Okay. So I'll just speak for a minute about kind of the philosophy that I, uh, I learned a long time ago, over 40 years ago, which is number one, Sam Berne (05:10.542) There is a big difference between eyesight reading the eye chart. That's your eyeballs and vision is how the eye and the brain and the body work together. Vision is a learned skill. It's how we we track focus and coordinate our eyes together. That's kind of the input side of vision. And then we have the processing in the brain and then we have output and There certain developmental experiences that children go through in developing their sensory motor systems. And one of the first experiences is going through the learning curve of something called the primitive survival reflexes. Have you heard of the primitive survival reflexes? I have heard a little bit of, don't know much. never did anything in occupational therapy. So the primitive survival reflexes are very early in utero movement patterns that the fetus makes. And the purpose of these primitive reflexes, one of the functions is it helps the newborn when they come out of the birth canal. or their birthed to adjust to the new kind of environment being out of the womb, the safety of that. And there's several primitive reflexes that are controlled by the brain stem, the reptilian brain, which is our survival brain. And these primitive reflexes are important for infants and toddlers to go through in their movement explorations. because they are the foundational movement patterns that once they're integrated, then the infant can then move more to the higher centers of the brain, the upstairs brain, so to speak, like the cerebellum. And then eventually as they get into school, the prefrontal cortex, they call that executive function. So I just have to move. just have to. Sam Berne (07:35.342) My daughter's just playing and she has a close party so I'm just gonna bring her there. Okay. Sorry. Let me know when you're ready. Sam Berne (07:48.334) Okay, Amy, I'm going I'm on the treadmill. Let's go gym, please. Sam Berne (07:58.03) I'm constantly there and see nice. Sam Berne (08:06.572) Okay. Okay. All right. So the primitive reflexes help us develop our gross motor and fine motor skills. Yeah. Part of that fine. The other part of the, the movement piece is the vestibular connection to the eyes. There's actually something called the vestibular ocular reflex. which has to do with integrating the inner ear, which is our proprioceptive orientation and our vision, our peripheral vision. Okay. So what does all this have to do with the eye turn when the eye is turning? The brain is shutting off the eye. That's kind of the mechanism. And the other, the other choice would be double vision. Like it'd be interesting to ask her in a stress-free moment. Do you ever see two things? have asked her that. Um, I don't know if she can comprehend that she has said no. Okay. Well, that's okay. know, uh, like mommy, I, it's more than one item. I'm seeing more things, but anyway, Doesn't matter. Yeah. So when you see the left eye turning in, that means that she's suppressing that eye. The brain is kind of, goes offline, so to speak, and there can be an alternating or can be on one side. yeah. Sorry. I noticed with her for the most part, like when it happens, it's the left eye every once in a while, the right one will turn. And that's why another reason why I'm like, I feel like patches wouldn't be a good idea because it's just not making it work together. Well, so with patching, first of all, children have no context on why they're being patched.