In this episode of The Flux, host John Cordier interviews Jim Malone at the Complex Social Systems Conference in Santa Fe. Jim, an experienced government acquisition professional, shares his fascinating journey from contracting to pursuing a PhD in Computational Social Science. He discusses the importance of understanding complexity in systems, particularly in government contracting and policy-making. Jim explores how modeling and data analysis can revolutionize our approach to measuring value in federal spending and its impact on various sectors. This thought-provoking conversation delves into the intersection of complexity science, policy, and the potential for creating more effective and value-driven government processes.