Sustaining Inclusion in Uncertain Times

Wema Hoover explores the systemic challenges and backlash facing DEI, championing sustainable strategies that centre inclusion, belonging, and authentic organisational transformation amidst shifting societal and political landscapes.

In this thought-provoking episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood explores the shifting terrain of diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) with global DEI expert Wema Hoover. As policies and public narratives in both the United States and UK face significant scrutiny and backlash, Joanne and Wema dissect why inclusion efforts are being re-evaluated, how organisations are responding, and where the misconceptions about equity and meritocracy truly lie. Listeners will gain a window into how high-profile brands and corporate leaders are navigating today’s political headwinds, as well as clear-headed advice for HR and inclusion practitioners on maintaining organisational values and psychological safety amidst uncertainty.

Wema Hoover brings a wealth of experience as a former Chief Diversity Officer at renowned companies including Google and Sanofi, with a career dedicated to leading systemic change and driving cultural transformation on a global scale. Based in Princeton, New Jersey, she grounds her practice in championing sustainable DEI strategies that adapt to complex and volatile environments. Wema’s perspectives are shaped not only by her leadership across continents but also by a personal commitment to the true meaning of inclusion and belonging. She approaches DEI not simply as a compliance exercise, but as a sound business strategy that unlocks employee potential and meets the evolving needs of clients, communities, and customers.

Listeners can expect an unflinching discussion about the realities of the current DEI backlash, the role of misinformation and fear in shaping public sentiment, and the dangers of complacency. Joanne and Wema unpack the pitfalls of viewing DEI through a zero-sum lens, highlight the need for authentic business alignment, and stress the importance of both cultural retention and psychological safety—especially for those who feel disheartened by today’s climate.

A key takeaway from this episode is the call to reconnect with the foundational values of inclusion as simply good business sense—fostering environments where talent and innovation flourish, and where every individual has the opportunity to thrive. For anyone seeking inspiration and practical strategies to create meaningful change despite external pressures, this episode offers both context and hope.

Published: 29.05.2025 Recorded: 17.02.2025 Duration: 0:53:20

• AI Extracts and Interpretations
• The Inclusion Bites Podcast #161 Beyond the DEI Backlash
• Other Links
• SEE Change Happen: The Inclusive Culture Experts — seechangehappen.co.uk
• Inclusion Bites Podcast on YouTube

Clips and Timestamps

Viral Topic: The Real Purpose of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion
Quote: “the intent of diversity, equity, inclusion program, which is not to provide advantage or preference, but it’s to provide access and level opportunities so the best and brightest can shine.”
— Wema Hoover [00:04:34 → 00:04:46]

Viral Topic: The Post-George Floyd Shift in Corporate DEI
Quote: “when we had the horrible murder of George Floyd in 2020, that was a pivotal point, not only in The United States, but across every market and every country where you really looked at, you know, what is happening between the markets, not only the opportunities, but the impact that they’re having in society with access to, you know, grow to have opportunities that everyone was reevaluating.”
— Wema Hoover [00:09:51 → 00:10:17]

Viral Topic: Political Reckoning in the US: “those who may have voted for the current administration did not realize just the kind of massive, not only changes, but dismantling that would happen that would affect their own backyard, you know, from an education system, from an immigration system, you know, from an access in social security. So I do think that there is this almost like, still reality that, wow, this is not what I signed up for.”
— Wema Hoover [00:16:39 → 00:17:06]

Viral Topic: The Fear Behind Diversity
Quote: “there’s a fear that, you know, when you look at the demographic census, you know, of United States, particularly of, you know, how, you know, people of color, you know, will continue to be the growing majority if you look at the ten, ten to fifteen years out. And that fear is driving that 100%.”
— Wema Hoover [00:20:47 → 00:22:20]

Viral Topic – The Importance of Genuine Inclusion in Organisations: “People cannot bring their best if they’re in hostile environments, if they feel that they are not going to be tacked on or being able to contribute because of who they are or what their authentic, their authentic selves.”
— Wema Hoover [00:27:02 → 00:27:12]

Viral Topic: The Truth About Diverse Hires
“But in fact, it’s evidence against this, you know, which is the reality, which is, you know, why I think it’s so important for organizations to not only, tap into a leverage it, but also now create their own, you know, kind of truth telling, create their own success stories and start communicating it. Like how, when they have done it, they’ve been able to kind of tap into, to new markets.”
— Wema Hoover [00:31:57 → 00:32:25]

The Real Value of DEI: “when people are in an environment where they feel safe, they feel included, they have the ability to be themselves. They perform the best.”
— Wema Hoover [00:35:41 → 00:35:48]

The Business Case for Inclusion: “These strategies are business strategy, effective strategy, business strategy that have been in place by the way, for decades and decades and decades, that happened to have also a great outcome of diversity, equity, inclusion, which happens to be very sound strategies and tactics to have strong workforce, you know, of, of, of, of inclusion, of, of, perspective ideas and a wonderful opportunity to understand segment and meet the needs of your market just happens to be, which is also inclusion.”
— Wema Hoover [00:38:56 → 00:39:29]

Viral Topic: Building a Thriving Organisational Culture
Quote: “everyone knows when they walk through those doors, regardless of what’s what’s happening in society, that this is the expectation set for them.”
— Wema Hoover [00:44:06 → 00:44:12]

Leadership in Challenging Times: “the leaders need to make meaning for themselves and be able to sit with whatever their personal opinions, their affiliation is outside, but what is needed inside the organization and why.”
— Wema Hoover [00:46:49 → 00:47:02]

Definition of Terms Used

Zero-Sum Game

• Definition: The belief that opportunities or resources given to one group automatically result in losses for another, framing progress as a direct trade-off rather than mutual benefit.
• Relevance: This concept often fuels backlash against diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI) by perpetuating the idea that advancing marginalised groups inherently disadvantages those from majority backgrounds.
• Examples: When increasing workforce diversity is wrongly seen as reducing opportunities for white men, rather than expanding the overall talent pool.
• Related Terms: Scarcity Mentality, Privilege, Social Competition
  Common Misconceptions: Many presume that DEI initiatives forcibly exclude some people, but, as argued in the episode, effective inclusion creates added value without detracting from others’ chances.

Psychological Safety

• Definition: The shared belief within a team or organisation that individuals can express themselves, raise concerns, and take risks without fear of ridicule or repression.
• Relevance: Psychological safety is paramount for cultivating inclusive organisational cultures where all employees can contribute and innovate without anxiety of negative repercussion.
• Examples: Team members feeling safe to challenge groupthink or propose novel ideas during meetings, regardless of background or seniority.
• Related Terms: Belonging, Inclusion, Workplace Culture
• Common Misconceptions: Some see psychological safety as a licence for people to say anything without consequence, but it actually relates to respectful openness and constructive engagement.

Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) Backlash

• Definition: Organised resistance or reversal of initiatives designed to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion, often fuelled by political changes or shifts in societal sentiment.
• Relevance: The episode centres on how companies and communities are experiencing, navigating, or responding to increased scrutiny and retreat from previously prioritised DEI measures.
• Examples: Major corporations eliminating DEI departments or commitments from public view, or government executive orders restricting the language and actions around fairness and inclusion.
• Related Terms: Anti-Woke Movement, Social Regression, Regressive Policy
• Common Misconceptions: Some conflate the DEI backlash with evidence that DEI “failed” or is “toxic”, when in reality, as discussed, much resistance stems from misinformation, fear of loss, or shallow commitment to genuine change.

Window Dressing

• Definition: Superficial, short-term, or performative actions intended to appear as though meaningful change or investment in DEI is occurring, without deep-rooted or lasting impact.
• Relevance: The episode highlights how some companies rapidly established visible DEI programmes following significant societal events but withdrew once external pressures eased, revealing a lack of foundational commitment.
• Examples: Issuing public diversity statements or launching ERGs (employee resource groups) after a high-profile incident, only to scale back or abandon these efforts quietly months later.
• Related Terms: Performative Allyship, Tokenism, Virtue Signalling
• Common Misconceptions: Some mistake these surface-level changes for genuine systemic transformation, whereas true progress requires integration into an organisation’s core strategy and values.

Meritocracy

• Definition: The system or belief that positions and rewards should be allocated purely according to individual talent, effort, and achievement, disregarding systemic barriers or privilege.
• Relevance: Meritocracy is often invoked to resist equity-driven policies, suggesting that DEI efforts undermine the principle that “the best person gets the job”, without recognising historical disadvantages impacting access and opportunity.
• Examples: Arguing that any form of positive action or outreach initiative automatically leads to appointing less qualified candidates simply because of their demographic background.
• Related Terms: Equity, Positive Action, Structural Bias
• Common Misconceptions: Many assume that current recruitment and development pathways are already meritocratic, ignoring persistent biases and inequities that DEI initiatives aim to redress. The episode clarifies that genuine meritocracy cannot exist where true equity of access and support is lacking.

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Joanne Lockwood SEE Change Happen

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Wema Hoover Be Limitless

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