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The Systems Thinking Process Used by the Most Adaptable Product Leaders (with Sheryl Cababa, Author of Closing the Loop)

The Product Manager

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What if instead of racing to solve problems, you paused to map the entire system first? In this episode, Hannah sits down with Sheryl Cababa—author of Closing the Loop: Systems Thinking for Designers and founder of Optimistic Design—to talk about what it really means to design for complexity. From AI adoption to organizational policy changes, Sheryl brings a systems lens to the decisions leaders make (often too hastily) in fast-moving environments.

They explore how design leaders can avoid short-sighted thinking, better understand stakeholder dynamics, and use accessible tools to facilitate organizational change that actually sticks. Whether you're planning your back-to-office strategy or rethinking your product's impact, this conversation will leave you re-evaluating how your decisions ripple through the system.

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Chapters

1. The Marble and Cup Metaphor (00:00:00)

2. Cheryl's Journey into Systems Thinking (00:08:57)

3. Applying Systems to Organizational Change (00:16:19)

4. Success to the Successful: System Archetypes (00:26:59)

5. Understanding Stakeholder Ecosystems (00:33:11)

6. Designers as Facilitators Not Solution Creators (00:33:31)

7. Mapping Unintended Consequences (00:40:16)

108 episodes

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