Online culture was for years treated as a kid's beat, but Kat Tenbarge of Spitfire News has shown that the tactics and propaganda that are prototyped in the influencer world are now being used to manipulate us all.

The public duels between celebrities like Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni aren’t just gossip fuel. They’re a vast business, one that’s also a thriving laboratory for experimenting with influence and public perception. Kat Tenbarge reports on these propaganda wars at Spitfire News, where she brings the dogged investigative techniques she honed at NBC News and Business Insider to bear on the professional fixers and manipulators that public figures pay to massage our opinion of them.

In this episode of The Rip Current, Tenbarge teaches us about the business of public opinion, and just how cost-effective — and in some cases cheap — it is to mess with your ideas about famous people and their behavior. We also dig into the conservative media machine’s strangely warm reception on Gavin Newsom’s podcast, and why accepted terms like “misogyny” or even “liar” are so hard to get on air.

(Also, if you listen closely you’ll hear the weird coincidence that connects this episode to last week’s conversation with Jennifer Freyd, who coined the term DARVO to describe the common misdirection tactics of accused wrong-doers.)