How do we stay hopeful in the face of despair and disillusionment—especially when politics threaten to tear us in two? Kate speaks with Parker Palmer, a writer, teacher, and activist. As you’ll hear, he has gone through seasons of deep clinical depression, and has hard-won wisdom to share with us on how to survive, how to regain a sense of agency, how to remain hopeful despite it all.

In this episode, Kate and Parker discuss:

• finding agency in the midst of depression and despair (including his trick of redefining achievement)

• why it is important to recalibrate our sense of reality—especially in the face of 24-hour news cycles and social media algorithms

• how a broken heart can either shatter or break open into a larger, more compassionate way of being

So on a day like today when we all might be thinking about the state of our nation or the state of our world or the realities at stake for our families and friends (....or perhaps, more tempted to keep our head in the sand to just make it through Thanksgiving), might we pull up close and listen to what Parker has to teach us about how to keep our hearts soft and remain hopeful, still.

If you liked this episode, you’ll also love:

• Sharon McMahon on the small differences we can make

• Will Willimon on aging into a new vocation

Watch clips from this conversation, read the full transcript, and access discussion questions by clicking here or visiting katebowler.com/podcasts.

Follow Kate on Instagram, Facebook, or X (formerly known as Twitter)—@katecbowler. Links to social pages and more available at linktr.ee/katecbowler.

This episode originally aired in November 2024.

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