In fashion, there are stylists—and then there are image-makers. As the “C” in KCD and one of the first male editors to define women’s fashion editorial, Paul Cavaco helped shape the modern visual vocabulary of the 1990s, styling everything from Harper’s Bazaar under Liz Tilberis to Madonna’s era-defining Sex book with Steven Meisel and Fabien Baron. Tonne Goodman, whose early days included modeling for Richard Avedon and assisting Diana Vreeland, brought that same instinct for clarity and cultural intuition to her longstanding role as the American fashion editor of Vogue. In a moment when the function—and future—of the fashion editor is being reexamined, hearing from two of its originals felt not only timely, but essential. Their conversation is a reminder that while fashion constantly reinvents itself, the value of vision and integrity never goes out of style.

"I grew up in the Bronx. There was no fashion in my house. What we had was music, grit, and individuality." - Paul Cavaco

"Everything really does happen for a reason. Even the catastrophic moments usually lead to something better." - Tonne Goodman

Episode Highlights:

• The Bronx Meets the Upper East Side - Paul and Tonne reflect on their wildly different upbringings—his gritty childhood in the Bronx, hers in a cultured Manhattan household—and how those contrasting backgrounds shaped their approach to fashion and image-making.
• Modeling Missteps and Vreeland’s Memo - Tonne shares how her short-lived modeling career ended with a memorable memo from Diana Vreeland describing her as “not pretty,” but still worth investing in—an early lesson in resilience and reinvention.
• From the Streets to the Studio - Paul shares how growing up in the Bronx and discovering style through music and street culture gave him a grounded, real-world approach to fashion—one rooted not in fantasy, but in everyday grit and individuality.
• The Madonna Sex Book and the Power of Play - Paul shares behind-the-scenes stories from the making of Madonna’s Sex book, revealing how humor, trust, and improvisation drove one of pop culture’s most provocative moments.
• Working Under Vreeland, Liz Tilberis, and Anna Wintour - Both editors reflect on their experiences working under three of fashion's most legendary editor-in-chiefs, and how those women shaped the way they understood vision, authority, and trust.
• Amber in Poughkeepsie - Tonne recounts a story of a shoot gone wrong—turned right—thanks to a vintage car parade and quick thinking. A reminder of how the best images often come from the unexpected.
• What a Fashion Editor Actually Does - They unpack the evolving role of the fashion editor—from doing everything themselves in the early days to navigating the micromanagement of today’s content-saturated shoots.
• The Value of Niceness - In an industry known for egos and elitism, both credit their long-term success to gratitude, empathy, and kindness—and explain why being “nice” is often an underrated superpower.
• On Creative Longevity and Staying Awake - The key to keeping ideas fresh? Staying alive to the world. For Paul, it’s about visual curiosity. For Tonne, it’s emotional connection. For both, it’s a refusal to become calcified.
• What’s Contemporary Now - Tonne cites empathy and mutual care as the defining principles of the present, while Paul reflects on how enduring values—rather than trends—shape what really matters.

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