When a top job becomes available, there very soon follows a list of potential 'runners and riders'. But how do you get your name on it? And how do you get your name off it?

This week, David Yelland and Simon Lewis reveal the PR secrets of The List. Whether it's the BBC, HSBC or Apple, there are suddenly lots of big names being touted around for some very serious jobs.

But there are PR traps along the way. Being seen as the frontrunner doesn't always end well - and if you didn't put your name forward, who did and what are they playing at?

And when it comes to these lists, there is sometimes great value in not appearing on them at all.

On the extended edition on BBC Sounds - Penguin PR. David and Simon look at the campaign to get 15 Gentoo penguins released from London Aquarium. The owner, Merlin Entertainments, has pledged to listen to 'constructive ideas' about how best to care for the animals. But has the company already lost the argument?

Also, when someone says AI will "evolve and transition certain jobs", what do they really mean? Especially when that someone is the head of Google's parent firm, Alphabet.

Sundar Pichai sits at the top of company valued at more than $3tn - so when he says he's worried about the AI bubble bursting and the effect it'll have on every company, it's probably worth paying close attention to his choice of words.

Producer: Duncan Middleton Editor: Sarah Teasdale Executive Producer: Eve Streeter Music by Eclectic Sounds A Raconteur Studios production for BBC Radio 4