You can read the transcript of that recording with Dr Azizah and Filwah here:

Host: Dr. Azizah and Filwah thank you for being part of this Word to the W.I.S.E. Conversation.

[00:00:56] Azizah Alogali: Thank you so much for inviting me along with my colleague Filwah to be guests on your podcast. It's actually a pleasure to spend the time with you and talk about developing standards that are truly gender responsive and representative. It's actually the topic that I'm personally interested in and I'm grateful for the opportunity to represent with my colleague, of course, Filwah SASO, and its effort towards achieving gender equality and standards development. Thank you.

[00:01:26] Filwah Alqahtani: Thank you, all, and it’s our pleasure to be part of this episode.

[00:01:30] Host: Thank you so much. But could you just for our listeners, tell us a bit more about your respective journeys, in particularly your career paths that brought you to the standards development space and what it is that you do at SASO.

[00:01:45] Azizah Alogali: Thank you for your question. Actually, for me personally, my professional career began 20 years ago when I start teaching at college. During that period, I was mostly involved in teaching, uh, offering academic advisory services and was involved of course, in the research. Since then, I have worked as a researcher at the University of North Dakota Program Evaluator at the University of Rochester. Then I moved to Saudi Arabia and started my career as a consultant, a full-time consultant, at a technical and vocational training corporation, and also part-time business development consultant in Nagaro. Would like to highlight my work with the women and gender studies department at the University of North Dakota. Within this collaboration, I was involved in examining issues of gender, social equality, and power dynamics. My experience through this career facilitated my understanding of the politics of sexuality and aspects of performance of gender. I also have the opportunity to understand women's achievement and their contribution to history. Generally, my working at the University of North Dakota helped me seek challenges related to women empowerment and take up all leadership initiatives within my community. Currently I work as a full-time consultant at the Saudi Standards, Metrology and Quality Organization (SASO). I start actually working at SASO since, uh, 2020, and I was collaborating all the time with the rest of my team to make sure that our project and initiatives are serving the needs of Saudi Arabia. I also work with the rest of my team to make sure that our initiatives are aligned with the strategic goals of the organization. It is also important to know that my responsibility is not only locally, um, sharing that we involved with our, um, activities at SASO and making sure that activities that SASO align with international organization that we're collaborating with, such as an ISO organization and other organization of course. Bulk of my personal contribution to SASO so far has entitled Developing a New Strategies for Action Plans Based or Recommendations. I have also collaborated with internal team members to develop a new awareness plans and solutions meant to facilitate the long-term growth of the organization. As part of my contribution also to SASO, I have also joined some of the ISO committees and representing SASO as a female employee in some of the ISO technical committees such as the Human Resource Management, governance of organization guidelines for the promotion and implementation of gender equality. And finally, I have joined also the Joint Strategic Advisory Group of Gender Responsive Standards that basically in short, my contribution and my career where it's starting and ending up with SASO.

[00:04:35] Filwah Alqahtani: So, for me, uh, I've been working for a while with SASO, but my journey in standardization got deeper a couple of years ago when I became the head of follow up and documentation section. At that time, my work included following up on standard projects from the initial step where a project is suggested to be added in the annual plan of a technical committee or department. Until the final draft of a project becomes an approved standard. Then I became the head of national technical committees’ section where my work shifted from focusing on projects to focusing on technical committee members who are involved in the standardization work. And now, as you mentioned earlier, I work as the manager of National and International Technical Committees department. And being a certified project manager, I represent Saudi Arabia in the number of regional and international technical committees about project management

[00:05:30] Host: So, what is your vision for the region in the future of standards development and how are you working towards achieving it?

[00:05:39] Azizah Alogali: Well, before I can lay out the vision of our organization concerning the future of standardization, I guess it would be imperative to define what a standard for our listeners who may not have enough knowledge or may not have, uh, familiar with the word standardization or standards. Well, a standard is the document established by consensus, improved by a recognized body that provides for common and repeated use. Rules, guidelines, or characteristic for activities or their results aimed at the achievement of the optimum degree of order in a given context. So, in a simpler term, I can say it's best referred for a standard is something that is established by authority Custom, or maybe General consensus as an example or point of reference. A standard is therefore a measure of, could be quantity, weight, extent, value, or quality. Our vision actually here at SASO is to be internationally trusted entity that empowers life equality and that the competitiveness of the national economy. Concerning standardization, we also focusing on issues Saudi or issuing Saudi standards and other relative documents that are consistent with international standards. We also focus on ensuring that the products comply with the standards approved by SASO, thereby guaranteeing environmental and health protection as well as general safety. Our organization actually known for ensuring the quality of national products and services. We do this by, uh, providing suitable Saudi standards that allow products and service to, to compete in the domestic and international markets. Uh, it is also our additional responsibility to protect the Kingdom's markets from the substandard and the counterfeit. As you can see here, our vision in general is to see Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Gulf also become a centre of excellence in standardization activities. Taking a step toward standards development could help our region accelerate action towards achieving the sustainable development goals set out by the United Nations. And to achieve this kind of vision, we have invested in collaborations and consensus that can facilitate the standards developmental process. SASO strongly believes in the fact that impactful standards are an outcome, just an outcome of a strong will to come together and build consensus on the way forward. The spirit, actually of the collaboration and consensus is what we need as a region. To drive standardization work and to achieve a sustainable future. Apart from that, we have also committed to inclusive in standardization process that place everyone, everyone in a leading position to achieve their ambitions for sustainable development. And this is why, maybe explaining why we have invested in bringing together expert from different sectors of the world and authorities experiencing coming together in their responsibilities. It is also important to note that we manage most of the national quality infrastructure in the Kingdom. Covering aspects of standardization, testing, product inspection, certification, metrology, and also technical regulations. I can also leave the floor for colleague Filwah to talk about the standards, issuing strategies as a part of our vision here at SASO

[00:09:12] Filwah Alqahtani: It's important to mention that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a crucial country in the Gulf, region, and an equal part of the international community. For this reason, it's important that Saudi products and services have access to and are accepted on international markets. Therefore, SASO strengthened its position, operation, and work at the international level in cooperation with International Standardization Organization and has newly developed its standards issuing strategy to ensure that the internal needs of the Kingdom are met. Consequently, wherever possible, national, and regional standards will become the same, or let's say, at least based on international standards. Our standards’ issuing strategy was built on a number of criteria, which includes Saudi Vision 2030, government priorities and strategies, the needs of real stakeholders. So, uh, Saudi social and non-economic priorities in addition to exports and imports, this strategy resulted in 181 priority areas for product categories as well as technologies and services standardization that we are aiming to cover. Also, standardization in the broadest meaning of the term, of course, is not limited to the development of new standards. As part of the development of the strategy, SASO undertook a self-assessment of the standardization department against the requirement of good standardization practice as promoted by ISO to figure out areas in which SASO shall undertake improvements during the period of the strategy, which is from the current year in 2022 until the 2024.

[00:10:56] Host: And given what both of you said, how critical are the roles of technical committees, local bodies, and collaboration with other stakeholders

[00:11:05] Azizah Alogali: Thank you for your question. It's important to note that all of these institutions are critical in standards development. The technical committees are essentially the key bodies of standardization. Here at SASO, we engage technical committees, right from initiation of the project to its registration, assessment, development of standards, approval, publication, as well as maintenance and review of the standards. The committees are tasked with the responsibility of developing and drafting standards before they can be, ratified by the overseeing institution. Their primary purpose is to help the board in charge of standards apply their oversights responsibilities on certain technical matters that are beyond the scope or expertise of the non-technical board members. The technical committees consist of expertise in different fields, uh, representing the National Committees Professional Association, uh, industry experts, government trade unions, and other, uh, stakeholders with different layers and representation. With such a vast or different composition, you can be sure that the technical committees can handle any subject matter and help develop standards across industries. By applying technical committees in the process of developing SASO standards, SASO aimed to achieve many goals. Some of these goals, like increasing opportunities of related body to participate in developing technical committees’ annual plans, and to prepare SASO standards. Raise the performance level of developing SASO standards in all field, especially those that have directing back to national economy, health, consumer safety and environmental protection. Periodically also review adopted SASO standards and ensure that such standards meet national requirements and are comfortable within the international standards as much as possible. Also, updating SASO standards based on the review process according to the methodology set by SASO. To ensure meeting the largest possible amount of consumer needs regarding the products and the service SASO provides concerned parties with opportunity to suggest technical committees, which are considered important to be formed. Any public, private, or academic institutions today designing to nominate any of their employee to participate in the membership of one of the technical committees is free to do so.

[00:13:36] Filwah Alqahtani: Besides SASO publishes each standard and its official website for public reviews and comments for 60 days before adoption. And this is also to ensure that standards are the fruit of the work of relevant stakeholders. Talking earlier about the strategy, I mentioned that stakeholders were actually one of the main criteria that strategy was built on. Stakeholders were analysed according to the strategic direction for the development of standards. We expect with the end of the strategy and the start of the new strategy from 2025 to 2027, that the number of stakeholders will increase according to the strategic directions that we have covered and according to the future analysis of stakeholders.

[00:14:22] Host: And what are the key initiatives SASO has taken to increase participation of women

[00:14:28] Azizah Alogali: Yes. actually, statistics and data show that women all over the world are largely underrepresented in the development of standards. SASO is attempting to change this narrative through a series of initiatives targeted at increasing the participation of women in standardization. One such initiative is to increase the number of women in the committees that develop standards for products that we consume daily. SASO actually help always making sure that they are the forefront in the working jointly with other institutions to address the critical gender gap and also to increase participation of women. The organization also promotes the adoption of gender responsive standard and technical regulation as powerful initiatives to attain the SDG Five, which relates to gender equality and empowerment of all women, and girls. Our organization believes in the importance of bringing practical solutions to creating a standard that form gender accountable governance system, policies and laws that include and work for everyone.

[00:15:37] Host: And where are you with respect to increasing the participation of women in technical committees and panels?

[00:15:43] Azizah Alogali: Actually, here at SASO, we follow different approaches to create empowerment for women. Some of this could include accepting women viewpoints in the committees and panels they are assigned to, and also making an effort to seek them and raising their status through opportunities for education, awareness and training. We also run mentorship programs target towards raising the level of participation of women in standardization activities. We are focusing actually here in SASO on increasing a number of women to participate in standardization by making that, happen. We are making sure that the physical environment enabling women to perform their duties. We are also working on educating our society and letting them know how it's important of women participation in standardization activities. And we do that through couple of the activities, initiatives. An example of that, an event that we hosted in March 2022 under the umbrella of increasing, women participation in standardization activity and that's happened in Women's Day. We brought, people from different institutions to talk about how important to involve women in standardization and how important to make standards are responsible and, uh, sensitive to women's needs. And we are planning and hoping to make that event happen again in 2023 with the collaboration of other stakeholders here in the Kingdom.

[00:17:14] Host: And what is the work you are doing when collaborating with local, regional, and global standards bodies to achieve your vision?

[00:17:22] Azizah Alogali: Yeah, thank you for the question. This is a very important thing. At SASO, actually, we are keen on improving the national quality infrastructure within the kingdom. Among some of the drivers are the intentions to diversify the economy, to reduce oil dependency, maximize the trade opportunities, integrate farther into global economies, enhance the productivity of firms, and improve the quality of our products and services. We actually here in SASO, we are working hard to manage most of the NQI services in the kingdom, covering, standardization, testing, inspection, product certification, metrology, and technical regulation as well. As you may notice, also, the accreditation service has become an independent entity in the recent times, and this is meant to avoid a conflict of interest among QI institutions, and changes are being made in the technical regulations area. Considering our collaboration with the Global Standards Body, SASO is a full member of three relevant international standards organization, ISO IEC, and ITU, our organization is also as a signatory of the. W T O T B T agreement and is entirely committed to the objective set out in the agreement. We also here at SASO, leading member of regional organization and the GSO and SMIIC when we are collaborating, therefore, we ensure that the standards we adopt are based on international standards where they exist and are appropriate. Regional and regional or national standards are developed only where an appropriate international standard does not exist, although in some limit cases, international standards are amended or adopted with national modification, so to account for the specific interest, uh, of the kingdom, Saudi Arabia.

[00:19:24] Filwah Alqahtani: So, as Dr Aziza just mentioned, SASO actively participates in a wide range of technical committees, concerned with standardization at national, regional, and international levels, and gives such technical committees a high priority in participation in the preparation of standards or giving comments or even voting on projects, as well as attending their meetings and seminars. The same is the case under memorandums of cooperation between various national standardization bodies, which aim to enhance cooperation and exchange expertise by holding seminars, meetings, and training courses.

[00:20:01] Host: Are there any particular standards where SASO has played a key role in keeping in mind greater diversity and inclusion?

[00:20:09] Azizah Alogali: Interesting across its seven standard sectors. SASO has a current catalogue featuring over than 32,000 standards. The standards span across, um, collaboration, or our calibration and metrology sectors. Electric and electronic, chemical and petroleum products, mechanical, metal products, construction, building products, sector, and, uh, service sectors too. Filwah can share maybe some of the examples where SASO has played a key role in keeping in mind greater diversity inclusions through our standardization.

[00:20:48] Filwah Alqahtani: Thank you, doctor. There are many examples where SASO has kept in mind differences in diversity as much as possible when necessary. Examples include let's say in respect of age differences some standards that requirements and sizes for school chairs and tables for all ages. There are standards that specify requirements to be met in children's toys. Some toys are made of chemicals that shouldn't be given to children less than five years old, of course, to protect them from the danger cause of chemical elements, let's say, are put in the mouth or being swallowed. In respect of diversity between women and men, SASO has prepared standards to determine the different requirements for clothing between men and women, and it has also adopted standards for protective equipment for martial arts that take into account the differences of parts of the body to be protected between males and females. There are many examples that can be found in our catalogue of standards by visiting our official website, www.saso.gov.sa and searching our electronic services for logs of catalogues stored, where more information can be found about the standards that we have worked on and approved.

[00:22:03] Host: And for listeners of this podcast, especially from the region, what should they look out for when looking to participate in standards development in your organization and with other partners?

[00:22:14] Azizah Alogali: As I mentioned earlier, with more than 32,000 published standards in our catalogue at SASO, this number make us assume that many needs for standardization in the kingdom Saudi Arabia are already satisfied. So those looking to participate in standards development should watch out for consultation and analysis opportunities that can facilitate the identification of gaps in standards coverage. Opportunities for consultation may require those participating to facilitate the identification of areas for improvement. Once these areas are identified technical committees may be asked to review the current situation and suggest the new standards.

[00:22:59] Filwah Alqahtani: Adding to what Dr Aziza just mentioned at SASO, we welcome participation of any relevant or interested party in the field of standardization, and we also welcome, any expert whether standardization is part of his or her work. Or specialization or even having an interest to get involved in the standardization work, and we seek to achieve this goal by using all available means. SASO is always keen to allow the participation for all relevant and interested parties to achieve the principles of impartiality and transparency in the preparation of standards. We also motivate members and provide them with all that is required to help them play this role.

[00:23:43] Host: Dr Aziza and Filwah thank you so much for speaking to the Word to the WISE podcast.

[00:23:49] Azizah Alogali: Thank you so much for inviting us to your podcast. We appreciate the discussion we have had, and we hope we have more opportunities like this to discuss some matters concerning gender and the standardization process in the kingdom Saudi Arabia. We would like to take this opportunity to thank you again for giving us a chance and hope that we get more opportunities in the future. Thank you.

[00:24:11] Filwah Alqahtani: Thank you so much.