The Lost Abbey's Tomme Arthur's current tagline is "We're surviving, not thriving." "We'd love to turn that into thriving," he added on the latest episode of the Brewbound Podcast. "We're trying to get to next year. That's the standard answer," Arthur explained. "Next year will be our 20th year in business. So it's a pretty big milestone in terms of continuity or continuation. So [we're] definitely looking forward. What we're trying to do is really establish the right size and scale for the brewery." For the Lost Abbey, that's led to a bit of a nomadic lifestyle over the last couple of years, moving from San Marcos to the Mother Earth Brewing facility in Vista and now to the former Eppig Brewing 30-barrel brewery space about a mile across town. Arthur described those moves as a search for efficiency that hasn't yet fully been realized, reinforcing the business with contract partners with room to add more. In the interview, Arthur shared his view of The Lost Abbey's business moves in an effort to "grow down," while also hitting on a major challenge facing California brewers coming up on the expiration of their leases as landlords seek market rate increases in rent. Arthur shared his own experience of deciding whether a 30% rent increase was worth accepting at the brewery's best-performing tasting room. Before the interview, Jess, Zoe and Justin break down Rogue Ales & Spirits' bankruptcy filing and Torch & Crown's SoHo taproom closure. They also share one thing they're looking forward to at Brewbound Live next week.